.38 Special 1892 French Revolver

[mkrnel]

While not a antique this may help those understand the technical details -

2 inch BB revolver legal and obtainable without any license or restrictions as long as under 500 fps, over 500 fps and now a prohibited handgun.

Here are a bunch of short barrel BB and pellet handguns that are legal under 500 fps as they are not firearms under the act (just like antiques) when under 500 fps -

 

[snurge]

Ok,I'm going to add to this mayhem...
How about an integral silencer on an antique... Or a full auto c96...or a 30rd. extension mag?

 

[mkrnel]

Ok,I'm going to add to this mayhem...
How about an integral silencer on an antique... Or a full auto c96...or a 30rd. extension mag?

Silencers unfortunately are illegal in Canada, either fitted to a antique or not, but I like your outside of the box thinking there! The full auto C96 Mauser with 30 round mag is a good one to ponder! you do realize that all the pre 1897 only came with a 10 round mag and the full auto version came out in 1930's with the Model M712 right?

 

[pcvando]

Silencers unfortunately are illegal in Canada, either fitted to a antique or not, but I like your outside of the box thinking there! The full auto C96 Mauser with 30 round mag is a good one to ponder! you do realize that all the pre 1897 only came with a 10 round mag and the full auto version came out in 1930's with the Model M712 right?

This is correct.

Where would a full auto rim fire Gatling gun fall into the antique regs?

 

[mkrnel]

This is correct.

Where would a full auto rim fire Gatling gun fall into the antique regs?

Extremely rare and expensive Antique Gatling guns are not full auto, they are manually cranked/operated magazine feed firearms, they are not auto loaders, a person needs to manually load and fire the gun by constantly cranking/loading the firearm. As soon as you stop cranking the handle it stops loading and firing. A full auto firearm only needs the trigger to be held, the automatic function of the firearm does the rest, i.e. auto loader.

They are really not that much different than a bolt action except are a lot faster to load.

 

[tiriaq]

Extremely rare and expensive Antique Gatling guns are not full auto, they are manually cranked/operated magazine feed firearms, they are not auto loaders, a person needs to manually load and fire the gun by constantly cranking/loading the firearm. As soon as you stop cranking the handle it stops loading and firing. A full auto firearm only needs the trigger to be held, the automatic function of the firearm does the rest, i.e. auto loader.

They are really not that much different than a bolt action except are a lot faster to load.

Gatlings are prohibited. Crank is deemed to be the trigger. There was a time when they were manually operating repeating firearms, but that changed.

 

[snurge]

Silencers unfortunately are illegal in Canada, either fitted to a antique or not, but I like your outside of the box thinking there! The full auto C96 Mauser with 30 round mag is a good one to ponder! you do realize that all the pre 1897 only came with a 10 round mag and the full auto version came out in 1930's with the Model M712 right?

I was thinking f/a conversion to an antique c96...it's not a firearm.is not a silencer legally something that muffles the sound of a firearm?an antique with a silencer built in would still not be a firearm.Just stirring the pot

 

[mkrnel]

Gatlings are prohibited. Crank is deemed to be the trigger. There was a time when they were manually operating repeating firearms, but that changed.

These sell for under $20 in the USA and are legal down there, I remember seeing them for sale in Canada in the distant past, even seen them at gunshows too, don't know if they still are available. They turn any semi auto rifle into a old fashion Gatling gun.

Our 5 or 10 shot magazines take all the fun out of them although except for .22's.

http://www.galatiinternational.com/product/BMF.html

 

[wbaad]

These sell for under $20 in the USA and are legal down there, I remember seeing them for sale in Canada in the distant past, even seen them at gunshows too, don't know if they still are available. They turn any semi auto rifle into a old fashion Gatling gun.

Our 5 or 10 shot magazines take all the fun out of them although except for .22's.

http://www.galatiinternational.com/product/BMF.html

Those are specifically prohibited in the act.

Bump firing is unfortunately the only way to go.

This is getting off topic!

 

[mkrnel]

Those are specifically prohibited in the act.

Bump firing is unfortunately the only way to go.

This is getting off topic!

Wasn't aware of that, I did look up the act and all I can find is mention of is devices that allow "discharge projectiles in rapid succession during one pressure of the trigger" These devices actually activate and release the trigger in multiple trigger pressures.



Regulations Prescribing Certain Firearms and Other Weapons, Components and Parts of Weapons, Accessories, Cartridge Magazines, Ammunition and Projectiles as Prohibited, Restricted or Non-Restricted

SOR/98-462CRIMINAL CODE​

Registration 1998-09-16
Regulations Prescribing Certain Firearms and Other Weapons, Components and Parts of Weapons, Accessories, Cartridge Magazines, Ammunition and Projectiles as Prohibited, Restricted or Non-Restricted
P.C. 1998-1662 1998-09-16
His Excellency the Governor General in Council, on the recommendation of the Minister of Justice, pursuant to the definitions “prohibited ammunition”Footnotea, “prohibited device”Footnotea, “prohibited firearm”Footnotea, “prohibited weapon”Footnotea and “restricted firearm”Footnotea in subsection 84(1) and to subsection 117.15(1)Footnotea of the Criminal Code, hereby makes the annexed Regulations Prescribing Certain Firearms and other Weapons, Components and Parts of Weapons, Accessories, Cartridge Magazines, Ammunition and Projectiles as Prohibited or Restricted.

• Return to footnoteaS.C. 1995, c. 39, s. 139

Interpretation

1 In these Regulations, “semi-automatic”, in respect of a firearm, means a firearm that is equipped with a mechanism that, following the discharge of a cartridge, automatically operates to complete any part of the reloading cycle necessary to prepare for the discharge of the next cartridge.
Prescription

2 The firearms listed in Part 1 of the schedule are prohibited firearms for the purposes of paragraph (d) of the definition “prohibited firearm” in subsection 84(1) of the Criminal Code.
3 The firearms listed in Part 2 of the schedule are restricted firearms for the purposes of paragraph (d) of the definition restricted firearm in subsection 84(1) of the Criminal Code, except for those firearms that are prohibited firearms within the meaning of paragraph (b) or (c) of the definition prohibited firearm in that subsection.

• SOR/2015-213, s. 2.

Previous Version
3.1 The firearms listed in Part 2.1 of the schedule that have a barrel that is less than 470 mm in length, and firearms listed in items 3, 4, 6, 7, 9 and 10 of that Part that do not have a barrel, are restricted firearms for the purposes of paragraph (d) of the definition restricted firearm in subsection 84(1) of the Criminal Code, except for those firearms that

• (a) discharge projectiles in rapid succession during one pressure of the trigger; or
• (b) are prohibited firearms within the meaning of paragraph (b) of the definition prohibited firearm in subsection 84(1) of the Criminal Code.

• SOR/2015-213, s. 2.

3.2 The firearms listed in Part 2.1 of the schedule that have a barrel that is at least 470 mm in length, and the firearms listed in items 1, 2, 5, 8 and 11 to 15 of that Part that do not have a barrel, are non-restricted firearms for the purposes of paragraph (b) of the definition non-restricted firearm in subsection 84(1) of the Criminal Code, except for those firearms that

• (a) discharge projectiles in rapid succession during one pressure of the trigger; or
• (b) are prohibited firearms within the meaning of paragraph (b) of the definition prohibited firearm in subsection 84(1) of the Criminal Code.

• SOR/2015-213, s. 2.

4 The weapons listed in Part 3 of the schedule are prohibited weapons for the purposes of paragraph (b) of the definition “prohibited weapon” in subsection 84(1) of the Criminal Code.
5 The components and parts of weapons, accessories, and cartridge magazines listed in Part 4 of the schedule are prohibited devices for the purposes of paragraphs (a) and (d) of the definition “prohibited device” in subsection 84(1) of the Criminal Code.
6 The ammunition and projectiles listed in Part 5 of the schedule are prohibited ammunition for the purposes of the definition “prohibited ammunition” in subsection 84(1) of the Criminal Code.
Coming into Force

7 These Regulations come into force on December 1, 1998.

• SOR/98-472, s. 1.

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/sor-98-462/page-1.html

 

[Eaglelord17]

I never said that short barreled antiques are prohibited. Short barrels are though. You cannot manufacture a new short barrel for a antique as you would be manufacturing a prohibited device. Argue that because it is a antique it is legal all you want, as soon as that barrel is off the firearm it is a prohibited device and no longer part of that firearm.

The law is very clear in that regard. Here is the important parts underlined. ""prohibited device means
(b) a handgun barrel that is equal to or less than 105 mm in length, but does not include any such handgun barrel that is prescribed, where the handgun barrel is for use in international sporting competitions governed by the rules of the International Shooting Union"

There is no distinction between antiques or modern for barrels, as soon as it is removed it is a prohibited device. No mention of antiques or even firearms, simply the barrel being under 105mm.

 

[mkrnel]

I never said that short barreled antiques are prohibited. Short barrels are though. You cannot manufacture a new short barrel for a antique as you would be manufacturing a prohibited device. Argue that because it is a antique it is legal all you want, as soon as that barrel is off the firearm it is a prohibited device and no longer part of that firearm.

The law is very clear in that regard. Here is the important parts underlined. ""prohibited device means
(b) a handgun barrel that is equal to or less than 105 mm in length, but does not include any such handgun barrel that is prescribed, where the handgun barrel is for use in international sporting competitions governed by the rules of the International Shooting Union"

There is no distinction between antiques or modern for barrels, as soon as it is removed it is a prohibited device. No mention of antiques or even firearms, simply the barrel being under 105mm.

So if I removed or shorten the barrel on my short barrel BB gun is that the same deal?

And every time I remove a barrel for cleaning off my antique short barrel handgun I am a criminal until I put it back together and it is now not prohibited again?

What if I have no restricted licence and own a Colt or Remington revolving rifle but also own a 5.5 inch revolver barrel but have no revolver, by owning a barrel that is legal to buy for a revolver now illegal and restricted because I only own the carbines which have to have a minimum 16" barrel in Canada to be legal as a unrestricted firearm?

Boy our laws are stupid!

 

[jethunter]

You guys need to stop being so helpful to the Turdling and his minions. Educating them on everything antique so they can take it away. Not clever.

 

[Deuce-deuce]

So if I removed or shorten the barrel on my short barrel BB gun is that the same deal?

And every time I remove a barrel for cleaning off my antique short barrel handgun I am a criminal until I put it back together and it is now not prohibited again?

What if I have no restricted licence and own a Colt or Remington revolving rifle but also own a 5.5 inch revolver barrel but have no revolver, by owning a barrel that is legal to buy for a revolver now illegal and restricted because I only own the carbines which have to have a minimum 16" barrel in Canada to be legal as a unrestricted firearm?

Boy our laws are stupid!

This is a prime example of why you shouldn't take legal advice from the internet... there is no 16" legal requirement in this country. A "short" handgun barrel IS a prohibited device. Done.

You guys need to stop being so helpful to the Turdling and his minions. Educating them on everything antique so they can take it away. Not clever.

Whilst I do agree with you somewhat... if they are concerned about old timey guns that that last drive by was a ride by, we've got bigger fish to fry. The last batch of frt changes is a good example of this. As far as I know the colt saa changes were barely even noticed by the gun community.

 

[jethunter]

Whilst I do agree with you somewhat... if they are concerned about old timey guns that that last drive by was a ride by, we've got bigger fish to fry. The last batch of frt changes is a good example of this. As far as I know the colt saa changes were barely even noticed by the gun community.

Coalition for Gun Control has already been active on antiques, with information they got from us, right here. You can make jokes about "ride-bys", but there have already been some far-reaching policy changes brought about by remarks and information supplied right here on this sub-forum.

 

[Thiopento]

I agree with jethunter, I started this thread to discuss the feasibility of a .38 special French 1892 to allow this old horse to see more use and it's transformed in all sorts of unintended ways, please appreciate this!!:

Coalition for Gun Control has already been active on antiques, with information they got from us, right here. You can make jokes about "ride-bys", but there have already been some far-reaching policy changes brought about by remarks and information supplied right here on this sub-forum.

 

[guywiththemule]

I agree with jethunter, I started this thread to discuss the feasibility of a .38 special French 1892 to allow this old horse to see more use and it's transformed in all sorts of unintended ways, please appreciate this!!:

Agreed. Please keep this in mind before you post. Remember... "you are your own worst enemy".

 

[rjf1963]

If it's antique it would be ok to be below 104, would it not?

Although I have several short barrel Antique handguns 4" and less that are all Antique status I had one of my S&W 44 DA's 6" barrel develop a bulge at about 3". I thought I could cut the barrel to 3" and reinstall the sight. Called CFC and the answer I got was it would become prohib. Since I had a RCMP letter for it already stating it was documented as a 6" barrel I had no choice but to located a donor barrel above 4" to keep it Antique.