Do die brands matter?

[Potshot21]

Good Day Eh!

So I'm in the market for dies for my .338 Lapua Mag, and I'm curious if the brand of dies really matter? I'm thinking I should go neck sizing-dies as I only have the one bolt-gun chambered for this calibre and my understanding is it will make my brass last longer and maybe be slightly more accurate than FL sizing.

This question can go for all calibres though, just curious as Lee seems to be cheaper than RCBS and Hornady dies.

Thanks

 

[rl4930]

You're shooting an expensive round. Don't cheap out on dies. Redding type s competition neck dies is what you want. If you're just plinking and not too worried about accuracy, then the rcbs or lee dies will work. And to answer your question, yes!! The dies matter if you want to make concentric and consistent ammo.

 

[hunters home]

I agree with rl4930, and at some point you will have to bump the shoulder back for proper chambering. A redding body die might be a good idea or some other die that will bump the shoulder back.

 

[Ron AKA]

So I'm in the market for dies for my .338 Lapua Mag, and I'm curious if the brand of dies really matter? I'm thinking I should go neck sizing-dies as I only have the one bolt-gun chambered for this calibre and my understanding is it will make my brass last longer and maybe be slightly more accurate than FL sizing.
This question can go for all calibres though, just curious as Lee seems to be cheaper than RCBS and Hornady dies.

Yes, I would say that the basic dies of RCBS, Hornady, Lee, and Lyman are all about the same. However there are differences that may interest you. Lee makes what is called a collet die. It works the brass the least of all dies in my opinion. It just squeezes the neck around a mandrel. Lee claims it is more accurate than any other die. Not sure about that, but it certainly is a good idea, and some serious shooters use them. Unfortunately I did not see them in the 338 Lapua Mag on a quick look. In fact I could not see any Lee dies that are for the Lapua.

I would say if you want a bit of a step up from the standard dies, have a look at the Forster dies. They make their sizing die to place the expander ball very high in the die, right near the shoulder to minimize any concentricity issues. See this cutaway of their sizing die.

You could go with a neck sizing die only, but sooner or later you are likely to need a FL die. Most who go with a neck die, buy a three die set and get both the FL and Neck die. I would suggest going with a FL die and seater die set. With the FL die you do not have to FL size the case every time. You can short stroke the press and only size down close to the shoulder but not bump it back. Or, better still you can size 2/3 of the neck. When you do need to bump the shoulder, you should still short stroke the press and only bump it back 0.001 to 0.002". This is the Forster set if you are interested.

http://www.forsterproducts.com/product/die-set-338-lapua-mag-full-length-sizing-die-seater-die/

You can get Forster products through Mystic Precision and others.

Hope that helps some,

 

[mbogo3]

Anything but Lee.......personal bias........Harold

 

[bigedp51]

I would say if you want a bit of a step up from the standard dies, have a look at the Forster dies. They make their sizing die to place the expander ball very high in the die, right near the shoulder to minimize any concentricity issues. See this cutaway of their sizing die.

Ron AKA

Your just like a parrot repeating what others have posted before you.

I have seen posers before but you really take the cake.

Too bad you never had a original thought or idea in any of your posts.

I hope the moderators see through your BS act and do the same to you as they did sunray.

 

[billdick]

I think he is actually sunray

 

[GunsNotPuns]

If you're intent on going the neck-sizing route I think you'll have to go other then Lee as I don't believe they make .338 neck-sizing dies. Pity, I rather like their neck-sizing dies and they're reasonably priced.

 

[bigedp51]

I think he is actually sunray

At least he didn't copy my photo below and tell everyone he equipped all his RCBS dies with the Forster spindle and expander assemblies.

This clown is real good at reading other peoples postings and repeating them and trying to pass the information off as his own.

 

[yomomma]

Ron AKA

Your just like a parrot repeating what others have posted before you.

I have seen posers before but you really take the cake.

Too bad you never had a original thought or idea in any of your posts.

I hope the moderators see through your BS act and do the same to you as they did sunray.

Don't let the bees get under your bonnet

 

[warrenb]

I like lee collet dies. I have redding dies in 223 and have always preferred my Lee collets for neck sizing.

When I got my 338lm several years ago I went with Redding bushing dies using the nitride bushings. You may have to try a couple of different size bushings to get the exact neck tension you require and your rifle shooting perfectly.

With Lee collet dies you might have to order custom undersize mandrels ($5 USD) to reach perfection. I doubt most bother. Perhaps Lee would custom make you 338LM collet die. Then you could cherry pick body and shoulder bumping dies.

If I was doing it again I would still go Redding S type complete set product number 78594.

 

[rl4930]

Yes, I would say that the basic dies of RCBS, Hornady, Lee, and Lyman are all about the same. However there are differences that may interest you. Lee makes what is called a collet die. It works the brass the least of all dies in my opinion. It just squeezes the neck around a mandrel. Lee claims it is more accurate than any other die. Not sure about that, but it certainly is a good idea, and some serious shooters use them. Unfortunately I did not see them in the 338 Lapua Mag on a quick look. In fact I could not see any Lee dies that are for the Lapua.

I would say if you want a bit of a step up from the standard dies, have a look at the Forster dies. They make their sizing die to place the expander ball very high in the die, right near the shoulder to minimize any concentricity issues. See this cutaway of their sizing die.

You could go with a neck sizing die only, but sooner or later you are likely to need a FL die. Most who go with a neck die, buy a three die set and get both the FL and Neck die. I would suggest going with a FL die and seater die set. With the FL die you do not have to FL size the case every time. You can short stroke the press and only size down close to the shoulder but not bump it back. Or, better still you can size 2/3 of the neck. When you do need to bump the shoulder, you should still short stroke the press and only bump it back 0.001 to 0.002". This is the Forster set if you are interested.

http://www.forsterproducts.com/product/die-set-338-lapua-mag-full-length-sizing-die-seater-die/

You can get Forster products through Mystic Precision and others.

Hope that helps some,

How do you consistently bump 1 or 2 thou in a fl die by short stroking the press?

 

[Ron AKA]

How do you consistently bump 1 or 2 thou in a fl die by short stroking the press?

I presume you are asking how I measure it? I have the Forster Bushing Bump die which bumps the shoulder but does not size down the body. If you take the bushing out of it then you can drop the cartridge in and measure the overall length. The cartridge sits in the die up against the shoulder. I bump the cartridge until it measures 0.001" shorter.

More recently I have bought the Hornady Headspace Kit. Same thing, just more convenient.

I don't check every case of course, just the first one to set the position of the sizing die. The whole purpose is to not over size down the case, and in particular the shoulder. If you keep pushing the shoulder back to minimum SAAMI you will keep stretching your case on every firing and eventually get a head separation.

 

[bankshot]

i have been reloading for over 30 yrs i have dies of almost every make (i live in a small town no sprting goods store so when you get to a larger center you buy what you can get, pre internet) never had a problem with any of them i did try the lee collet dies quite a few years ago they expanded the neck so much that the bullet just dropped into the casing i checked with lee they told me to purchase a smaller mandrel i didn't bother an just went back to the rcbe dies that i had

 

[c-fbmi]

If you think neck dies are the end all, be all, then size some cases in your "neck only" dies and load them up and check run out..........not for me thanks. I partial size in FL dies and have been for 45 years, that way the whole case is aligned and supported. If one can't figure out how to use their dies like this and need another $1000 worth of measuring equipment, maybe loading is too complex for them.
It never ceases to amaze me how many people think you can only, or have to, full length size with a FL sizer die. My 22-250 for example I only size about 1/2 the neck, it is obviously visible, and they are good for 2 or 3 loads like this then I just work my die in a tiny bit at a time until it just touches the shoulder back a smidge and the bolt closes on the case with just slight resistance at the bottom of the cam down. Then it's back to 1/2 neck for another 2 or 3 loads. My runout is consistently less than .001" using this method. Well except for the odd case which has a lopsided neck thickness issue. These I true up with an outside neck skim and carry on.

GENTLEMEN.........YOU DO NOT HAVE TO SET YOUR FULL LENGTH DIE SO THAT IT BUMPS HARD ON YOUR SHELLHOLDER.......IT'S ON THREADS, IT MOVES IN AND OUT, YOU CAN SET IT TO DO WHATEVER YOU WANT.

 

[bigedp51]

I use Redding competition shell holders, the set has five shell holders each .002 *taller than the next. Meaning these shell holders do not push the case into the die as far as a standard shell holder.
*NOTE, these shell holders lower the deck height and thus do not push the case as far into the die. This way the die does not need to be adjusted up and down or moved in the press.

This allows the die to make hard contact with the shell holder and the press cam over with each shell holder. This takes any slop out of the press and more uniform shoulder location after sizing.

The best part about these competition shell holders is you do not touch the die for the amount of shoulder bump, you just change shell holders.

As a example with my 5.56 cases for my AR15 rifles I use a +.004 shell holder to have .003 shoulder bump or set back from their fired length.

If I used the standard RCBS shell holder and the die making hard contact with this shell holder the shoulder would be pushed back .007.

I full length resize all my cases except for mil-surp rifles like the Enfield with oversized military chambers.

Now the main question "Do die brands matter?"

I have seven .223/5.56 dies of different manufacture and type, bushing dies, neck dies, full length dies and collet dies.

My favorite is the Forster full length benchrest die set, it has a high mounted floating expander. The neck of the case is still held in the neck of the die when the expander enters the case neck. Meaning the expander can not pull the case neck off center and induce neck runout.

Also if you have a standard off the shelf factory rifle, bushing dies can induce neck runout when they reduce the neck diameter .005 or more. Meaning these bushing dies work best with tight neck chambers and neck turned brass.

We live in a plus and minus manufacturing world and dies and chambers vary in length and diameter. Example, I have a standard FL Lee die that will push the case shoulder back .009 and reduce the case diameter smaller than a small base die does.

At the massreloading.com website they show that dies can vary .005 in neck diameter between die manufactures.
Are Your Sizing Dies Overworking Your Rifle Brass?
http://www.massreloading.com/dies_overworking_brass.html

Bottom line, in my opinion the average reloader would be better off full length resizing using Forster benchrest dies. This is because they produce the least amount of neck runout and the most concentric cases.

The Forster high mounted floating expander and spindle assemblies work so well I put them on all my RCBS dies to reduce neck runout.

Most neck sizing dies do not fully support the case body during sizing and can induce neck runout. And at the Whidden custom die website they tell you that non-bushing full length dies sizing dies produce the most concentric cases.

 

[rl4930]

I have no issues with partial sizing using FL dies. I was just curious how it was done by short stroking the press. I assume Ron aka meant he was bumping shoulda by "feel" and not by doing a full stroke on the press and backing the die out or using comp shell holders.

 

[bigedp51]

I have no issues with partial sizing using FL dies. I was just curious how it was done by short stroking the press. I assume Ron aka meant he was bumping shoulda by "feel" and not by doing a full stroke on the press and backing the die out or using comp shell holders.

I'm 67 years old with chronologically gifted eyesight, and the Hornady cartridge case headspace gauge with a digital vernier caliper reduces eyestrain and guessing looking at drop in case gauges.

I have a Forster bushing bump die and it is not a gauge and can't be use to measure case length. The only way to measure .001 to .002 shoulder setback or "bump" is with a gauge like the Hornady comparator gauge.

In the past you smoked the case and adjusted the die and went by chambering feel and the amount of carbon removed from the case shoulder.

Ron AKA is also the person who told this forum to lube their cases to fire form them, and didn't know primer hardness and cup thickness varies.

In other words there is a lot of BS in his postings in the fantasy world he live in.

WARNING, in all forums you have midgets sitting at their computers pretending to be giants. And I feel sorry for new reloaders having to weed through all the misleading and false BS.

I presume you are asking how I measure it? I have the Forster Bushing Bump die which bumps the shoulder but does not size down the body. If you take the bushing out of it then you can drop the cartridge in and measure the overall length. The cartridge sits in the die up against the shoulder. I bump the cartridge until it measures 0.001" shorter.

More recently I have bought the Hornady Headspace Kit. Same thing, just more convenient.

Example above, how did Ron AKA measure .001 "BEFORE" he got the Hornady gauge. I have seen his postings in other forums also and I just shake my head and wonder what planet he is on.

 

[Ron AKA]

I have no issues with partial sizing using FL dies. I was just curious how it was done by short stroking the press. I assume Ron aka meant he was bumping shoulda by "feel" and not by doing a full stroke on the press and backing the die out or using comp shell holders.

By short stroking I mean you don't put the case into the die until the shell holder hits the die. No you don't short stroke by feel. You want to measure to confirm what you are doing. If I partial resize the neck, I kind of do that by trial and error. You can see on the neck where the neck has been sized too. If you do not have fancy measuring equipment the other thing you can use to "short stroke" the resizing is use the threads on the die. All dies are 14 tpi which works out to 71 thou per turn. To get two thou you need a 10 degree turn on the die, or about 76 thou on the circumference. A little crude, but it can be made to work...

 

[rl4930]

Ah. I misunderstood what you meant by short stroking.