I have accuracy tested sooo many .223's (Almost every prevalent AR and NR brand in Canada), with a variety of ammunition, and found that the 69 gr FGMM has been the most consistent and accurate round, in 1/9, 1/7, & 1/8 twist barrels. Some barrels shot the 69 FGMM better than others, but it was always consistent and repeatable. IMHO, if you can't get a .223 barrel to shoot 69 gr FGMM consistently well, there is something wrong with the shooter, or something wrong with the gun. Buy some of that stuff, try it out, and if you are confident in your abilities, then the answer is obvious.........Beer Baron seems to be making 69 SMK's work.
Modern Varminter - another range report UPDATED POST 61, better groups
- Thread starter ianfroese
- Start date
Thanks for the advice. I'm going to the city this week, I'll look around for some. And I'll compare it to my XCR ha. That may be my deciding factor in whether I keep it or not...
The Hornady 75gr. HPBT should shoot just fine in a 1:8 twist barrel - it has the same bearing length as the Hornady 68 gr. BTHP.
As to how the superformance ammunition shoots, I can't say - but from what I've seen of the MVs so far, I'd expect much, much better for the cost.
As to how the superformance ammunition shoots, I can't say - but from what I've seen of the MVs so far, I'd expect much, much better for the cost.
redshooter
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Central Ontario
As others have said the 69gr SMK is an outstanding bullet, it's one that has always produced good groups. Regarding Hornady Match bullets, the 75 is great, the 68 requires a faster twist than the 75 according to Litz. My experience with them has been disappointing (68gr) to date. A 1 in 8 barrel should have no problem stabilizing them though. As I have a 1 in 7 now I've been tempted to try them but the 75gr HPBT's have been excellent...which makes me happy as I find SMK just a bit too expensive.
Also for those that don't reload you really can do it on the cheap to see if it's for you. If working up a load to see how it groups is your goal a cheap single stage, or even hand press will work. A basic setup using Lee equipment will be the cheapest and it will work, it's not ideal but you can still produce good ammo with them.
Also for those that don't reload you really can do it on the cheap to see if it's for you. If working up a load to see how it groups is your goal a cheap single stage, or even hand press will work. A basic setup using Lee equipment will be the cheapest and it will work, it's not ideal but you can still produce good ammo with them.
Last edited:
I don't know much but 2 things pop in my mind.
1. Before being all on the downer about your accuracy, try a bunch of diffrent ammo, weight, bullet typs and brands; has sometimes even two identical rifle will not like the same ammo.
2. You should take a round of what you are shooting, at the range, load a round, remouve the mag then manually eject the round. Do this a couple of times. Then shoot a round then ejec the second round; do this a couple of times. All this to inspect if somehow the action is pushing in projectile in the casing.
Also double check your rings to see if they haven't come loose.
1. Before being all on the downer about your accuracy, try a bunch of diffrent ammo, weight, bullet typs and brands; has sometimes even two identical rifle will not like the same ammo.
2. You should take a round of what you are shooting, at the range, load a round, remouve the mag then manually eject the round. Do this a couple of times. Then shoot a round then ejec the second round; do this a couple of times. All this to inspect if somehow the action is pushing in projectile in the casing.
Also double check your rings to see if they haven't come loose.
redshooter
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Central Ontario
Here's where factory is good, the factory crimp is probably better than any crimp I've done for tension and constancy. I never crimped when I first started reloading for bolt guns. I started with a light crimp to try to make the neck tension consistent, but that was it. Reloading for semi's is a different story. Unless you have a bushing die that sizes the neck tighter than a run of the mill FL sizer you really should be putting a firm crimp on every round you load for your gas gun. If you reduce the case capacity by reducing seating depth or denting the case you can encounter dangerous pressures, possibly causing a catastrophic failure...generally the cause of gas guns going boom, not that it was made by those who will remain nameless.
Checking you rings and mounts is good too, but from my perspective it's due to my lack of suitable torque wrench. I re-check them all the first few times to the range and then every few trips after that. Anything going into aluminum or small screws/bolts is only tightened with my finger tips on the driver, or holding the wrench very close to the fastener. I discovered that it's too easy to strip Aluminum threads years ago rebuilding a motorcycle engine...red loctite is amazing stuff.
I wouldnt be bent out of shape with those results from that ammo. My SL8 shot them at about 1.5-2 MOA, Try something lighter and get some reloads going. I shoot 60 gr varmints sub moa all day with my SL8, just gotta find the right load 
redshooter
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Central Ontario
I've had about 1/2 dozen sub MOA groups with my HBAR/Spikes with 75gr Hdy HPBT's at about 2600 fps. The powder is H 4895, 22.5gr if I'm not mistaken.
ATRS Shaun
Business Member Rep.
- Location
- Calgary, AB
Could you please have this gentleman give us a call or send an email, we would very much like to speak with him to work on this.
I absolutely agree with your first paragraph, get down onto bags either prone or off a stable bench.
I'm very sorry to hear that you're having a poor experience. There have been a lot of good suggestions in this post so far as well. Trouble-shooting is all about removing variables and confirming them one at a time, the human element being one of the most unpredictable of variables. That's where the suggestions of getting down onto bags or a bipod prone, or on a very stable bench (concrete) come into play, because they reduce the human element involved. The other method for this, is to have a friend who is experienced with precision rifles shoot it and see if your groups are comparable.
If they are, then we move on to trouble-shooting the hardware. Have you tried any other scopes on your Modern Varmint? And have you tried that Nightforce scope on any other rifles? This is the quick and easy way to confirm the scope. If you have a gun, something like a bolt action that you know is 1/2 moa capable for example, put the scope on that and see if it groups the same. Take the scope from that rifle, put it on your Varmint and see if the groups improve.
If you don't have the equipment to perform these tests, or if you have and you believe the deficiency lies with your Modern Varmint, please give us a call at 403-277-7786 or send an email to info@albertatacticalrifle.com
Also tied in to this suggestion, is if you are frustrated, stop. I've never seen anyone improve their groups by getting angry or frustrated. There is a huge mental component of precision shooting, and your confidence can develop a flinch. [This is only applicable if it is simply a learning curve issue]
How many of the MV Reloaders in this thread are crimping their cartridges? It is crucial to accuracy in any DI semi autos to ensure each brass length and subsequent crimps are equal from one to the next. The forcefulness of the round being stripped from the magazine and pushing it up the feed ramps can inadvertently force the bullet deeper into the case altering the pressure. This will happen randomly and creat inconsistent accuracy.
What I find perplexing is that AR15's are inherently accurate so how can this NR brand of rifle creat so much angst? As far as I am aware the gas systems are identical so the results should follow. Is the barrel extension any different or is the torque sequence incorrect? Finally is the custom gas block causing uncontrollable barrel harmonics?
What I find perplexing is that AR15's are inherently accurate so how can this NR brand of rifle creat so much angst? As far as I am aware the gas systems are identical so the results should follow. Is the barrel extension any different or is the torque sequence incorrect? Finally is the custom gas block causing uncontrollable barrel harmonics?
Last edited:
I'm sorry and what is your agenda? We all know "someone". Apart from slagging the gun what does this have to do with anything and where is the proof?
For all you know I know someone in Montreal who claims to be your boyfriend. Does that make it true if I post it on a forum?
I seriously doubt if "your friend" was in fact having trouble of any sort with a Varmint, the ATRS guys would not being doing everything to help correct the problem.
Hearsay testimonials are B.S. in my mind, hence my asking your agenda. There seems to be plenty of hate is why I am asking.
I own both a Hunter and the matching Varmint and both are accurate and run flawlessly. Did I get the only guns from ATRS that work? I doubt it. Rant off.
I agree with your assessment of what Ian could be doing wrong, but I see no point spreading B.S. that can not be verified.
I can see the ATRS guys opting to quit trying to help Canadian shooters after reading some of the crap posted on various forums. We truly are our own worst enemy and in many cases worse than the anti's who are trying to disarm us all.
Hi Shaun, thanks a lot for your reply. I am hoping this weekend that I can spend some time at the range, using a good solid base, and a few different types of good ammo, and hopefully see that it was in fact all on me.
I have a Sightron STac that I will mount and do some shooting with, just to confirm whether the NF scope is doing its part. The NF was mounted on another rifle, though briefly. It seemed to work then. I will also be checking to make sure my rings are tight.
It is entirely possible that the poor groupings are on me. Winter hibernation may have put my shooting skills into dormancy. The one thing that couldn't have been my fault, though, was the 3 light primer strikes on my Hornady Match ammunition. Considering this didn't happen on PMC or my 53 gr Hornady, I'm inclined to believe it was an ammunition issue. Any thoughts on that though? I would have possibly expected that on the PMC, but certainly not the match stuff.
Anyways, hopefully this weekend there will be a follow up report negating this whole thread with some nice tight groups.
How many legitimate sub moa five shot 100+ yard groups have you shot in your life? How many with a semi auto?
Price has nothing to do with accuracy but in this case every MV should be capable of shooting very well as they are very similar to an AR mechanically and I've never shot an AR with a free floated barrel that couldn't shoot close to 1 moa once I found a load the barrel liked. I think a lot of the troubles people have with accuracy is more a result of poor shooting techniques and a lack of experimenting to find a projectile the barrel likes. You can't expect it to shoot sub moa with cheap 55gr bulk ammo no matter how much you pay for a rifle and some barrels won't shoot sub moa even with match ammo. I would try to find some Black Hills MK262 77gr OTM, that stuff was shooting moa in my 11 inch PWS and was sub 2 moa at 100 yards in my 6.5 inch AR.
Last edited:
redshooter
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Central Ontario
It's too bad people don't seem to get that this just isn't going to happen. Never mind the slight variation from rifle to rifle, what about ammo? To suggest that a rifle will shoot most 5.56/.223, or most 7.62X51/.308 at MOA is beyond laughable. Hornady has 25 different loads for 223/5.56, that's right 25, with projectiles from 35gr to 75gr...just Hornady.
It really is clear who brews their own here...
Last edited:
I don't think (I could be wrong) that every rifle is tested for accuracy before being shipped to the customer. As far as I know they are all tested for function probably just into a bullet trap in the shop and only their personal rifles are used for accuracy testing and shooting at the range. If they were expected to take every rifle to the range and find a load it likes there would probably be 10 rifles in customers hands by now, that is a very time consuming practice when you don't have a private range out the back door of the shop.
With the design of the rifle and the quality level of the barrels used there really is no reason every rifle that comes out their door shouldn't be able to shoot sub moa with some load development or testing a few different loads to find the barrel's favorite food. After that I'm going to blame shooter skill, just because the rifle is capable doesn't mean the shooter is.
ATRS Shaun
Business Member Rep.
- Location
- Calgary, AB
Hi Shaun, thanks a lot for your reply. I am hoping this weekend that I can spend some time at the range, using a good solid base, and a few different types of good ammo, and hopefully see that it was in fact all on me.
I have a Sightron STac that I will mount and do some shooting with, just to confirm whether the NF scope is doing its part. The NF was mounted on another rifle, though briefly. It seemed to work then. I will also be checking to make sure my rings are tight.
It is entirely possible that the poor groupings are on me. Winter hibernation may have put my shooting skills into dormancy. The one thing that couldn't have been my fault, though, was the 3 light primer strikes on my Hornady Match ammunition. Considering this didn't happen on PMC or my 53 gr Hornady, I'm inclined to believe it was an ammunition issue. Any thoughts on that though? I would have possibly expected that on the PMC, but certainly not the match stuff.
Anyways, hopefully this weekend there will be a follow up report negating this whole thread with some nice tight groups.
No, it certainly doesn't. We put a minimum of 20 rounds through the rifle in the shop to ensure function, we are using 55gr american eagle for the varmints and if there's any hiccups, we fix it and then a lot more rounds go down to ensure we've corrected it. If you still have the light primer strike rounds, have you tried firing them again to confirm if it's just light strikes? Does the bolt appear to be fully locking into battery?
If any accuracy or function issues occur when you get out to the range this weekend please contact us so we can make arrangements to go over the rifle.
Minimum 20 rounds per rifle are fired into a bullet trap. Unfortunately we don't have a range on-site to accuracy test every rifle before it is shipped. If an accuracy problem is brought up then we take the rifle out to an approved range to test.
