Range Day with my MV and Baer

[onetwentyish]

Oh no you didn't!!!! Lol

If this was a $1000 rifle. I would own both the MH and MV and would never complain about accuracy. But when I spend almost 5 grand and it shoots worse then my $150 marlin x22. I have a serious issue.

As seen above, Chago compares a $1000 AR, to his $5000 customized MV or MH. He is absolutely allowed to compare the end resaults (accuracy) but to say there is a 4k price difference is absurd when at least 1.5k is furniture options or a proof barrel upgrade, none of which makes it shoot groups better. As such I am argueing the point of cost. These firearms are not built equally, one is basic, the other is heavily modded. The MV/MH even in basic (3350 for MV/3700 for MH) is still heavily modded compared to a $1000 AR.

And because they are still miles apart in price and specs, the best way to have a fair comparison of value is to bring the AR up to the MV's most minimal specs, so that is what I did, and the difference (not including any cost for the new handguard to free float the aftermarket lilja barrel) would put a Basic AR (+Lilja barrel+Timney trigger+JP SCS buffer+Ambi bolt release) only approx $940 less then the MV comparable build which would be a basic $3350 build with no options.

I honestly don't get your argument. Your trying to explain to me how a base priced MH is roughly the same as a cheap AR??? So based on your math a MH is 30% more expensive. And you act like that is no big deal. When the reality is your math is wrong because my MH costed about $4600 to my door. I'm not sure what your argument is trying to.prove??? My point was a $2000 xcr shoots the same if not better then my MH did. I am not trying to be a hater. I appreciate what ATRS did by bringing a non restricted rifle to Canada.

1) yes, a comparable AR build to the MV Basic build is about only 30% cost difference.

2) I am sorry, but your model was not a basic option for that price, also I find it interesting how now you get to through tax and shipping in to the cost of the MV, but not your other rifle that you are compairing it too? Interesting way to make it look more expensive than your other options. Sounds like you you live in a ####ty spot, not the manufacturers fault.

3) If you did, you would not #### all over them price wise as I have explained above, and you would also note that your MH was an early production, one that had most likely been affected by the campin and or gasblock issue, both of which have since been addressed.

Since you neglect to do both of these (which would show fairness) it discredits you in my opinion to anyone who is aware of these 2 negligences. Im not saying you had trouble getting yours to shoot, I am also not saying yours wasn't $4600. What I am saying is your example likely had some issues you never had sorted out before you dumped it and was built to a significantly higher spec than the AR of which you chose to compare it too.

I'd say he can. For one, The proof is in the pudding with his targets. And calling a Les Baer a basic ##### AR is a pretty long stretch.

Incase its not clear yet, I was quoteing Chago comparing his $1000 AR to his $5000 MH. To me a $1000 dollar AR is pretty basic these days, luckiy if you are even getting a free float barrel at that price.

 

[onetwentyish]

I'm a little tired of all the bash posts that keep coming out, I'm no fanboy and just judge firearms on my personal experiences with them, I've shot a few hundred rounds through three different MH's and can say that they are a very well built rifle and with the right ammo I can't see any reason they shouldn't be able to shoot sub moa. I spent a couple days at the range with the original owner of onetwentyish's MH and we were getting fairly consistent 1.5moa from Hornady 168gr z-max so with a little load tuning I think 0.9 or better should be very possible.

It is also importent to note this was before the cam pin fix on mine was done, it has not been shot for groups since that fix.

 

[hawk-i]

Just because someone makes lots of videos doesn't mean they can shoot well (not talking about RF). Most of the video guys these days seem to simply post lots of videos and spew their opinion of things based on what they've read on the internet.
I've offered to take onetwentyish's MH and do some load development but I've just done some shuffling in my collection and now have four of my own rifles to do load development on before I spend time working on someone else's rifle.

We need to remember that shooting sub moa is not only about the rifle but ammo selection and more importantly shooter ability. I've shot tons of sub moa groups over the last few years but to be able to repeat that over and over is very difficult and all it takes is one little twitch and that group is ruined. From what I've seen first hand and also read so far about owners of MH's and MV's is that most of them are not very experienced shooters and many of them don't really understand that ammo selection plays a huge role in accuracy. I have yet to see anyone post a picture of a group printed using Federal Gold Medal Match or Nosler Match or Black Hills match ammo. It's always cheap ammo or handloads that worked well in a different rifle.
I'm a little tired of all the bash posts that keep coming out, I'm no fanboy and just judge firearms on my personal experiences with them, I've shot a few hundred rounds through three different MH's and can say that they are a very well built rifle and with the right ammo I can't see any reason they shouldn't be able to shoot sub moa. I spent a couple days at the range with the original owner of onetwentyish's MH and we were getting fairly consistent 1.5moa from Hornady 168gr z-max so with a little load tuning I think 0.9 or better should be very possible.
I really don't understand why more owners don't spend the time to find a good load or develop a good load for these rifles. There have been a couple reports from guys who said they tried everything and couldn't get it to shoot but then sold it rather than contacting ATRS to see if they could find a problem with the rifle.
I'm hoping things dry up around my place soon so I can shoot prone again (puddles everywhere) and that I have good luck with my other rifles and find good loads quickly so I can take Onetwentyish's MH and find out what these can do.

If you really want to know what a rifle can do then buy one and see for yourself, relying on people you know nothing about tells you nothing. As we've all seen there are more than a couple guys on this site who appear to have a real hate on for ATRS and seem willing to spend a lot of energy discrediting their products. If you don't know the person away from this site everything here needs to be taken with a grain of salt. A fanboy could post pics claiming they were shot at 100 yards but were actually shot at 50 yards, a hater could claim it was match ammo but instead was pulling it out of a south African battle pack. You just never know unless you do it yourself. There are a few on the EE now for prices you could resell them for so there really is no risk in seeing for yourself.

Hopefully when you get the chance to test the rifle you will go the route of first shooting groups with Federal Gold Match, Nosler Match, and Black Hills ammo.....this is HOW pretty much all accuracy reviews are done on ALL rifles and set the standard of what the rifle is capable of.
Then go the route of your best handloads....at some point the Bullshyt has to stop, "either they can and do" OR "they can't"....excuses, excuses,....enough is enough already!

 

[cr5]

It is also importent to note this was before the cam pin fix on mine was done, it has not been shot for groups since that fix.

Not sure what that would do for accuracy but I do think it should increase reliability.

 

[cr5]

Hopefully when you get the chance to test the rifle you will go the root of first shooting groups with Federal Gold Match, Nosler Match, and Black Hills ammo.....this is HOW pretty much all accuracy reviews are done on ALL rifles and set the standard of what the rifle is capable of.
Then go the root of your best handloads....at some point the Bullshyt has to stop, "either they can and do" OR "they can't"....excuses, excuses,....enough is enough already!

Agreed, hopefully he will pay for a box of each
That has been my biggest concern so far with the offer to do the testing, it gets expensive quickly when shooting top quality ammo and the cost of reloading components these days adds up quickly. I've got a few weeks off in May and June, hopefully I can set aside some time to play with his rifle.

 

[norlandgeese]

Agreed, hopefully he will pay for a box of each
That has been my biggest concern so far with the offer to do the testing, it gets expensive quickly when shooting top quality ammo and the cost of reloading components these days adds up quickly. I've got a few weeks off in May and June, hopefully I can set aside some time to play with his rifle.

Posting on social media?

 

[cr5]

Posting on social media?

I don't do social media. I'll post my results on this site with pictures. I'll leave it to 1-20ish to post the results wherever he wants.

 

[Michael Dempster]

There is an amazing shooter and war vet hero right in that area, M. Rob Furlong
If you want an honest review of the MV he's the guy I would trust to do it.

Pffffft.......we already have a war vet hero who's also an amazing shooter, and he's saved us a lot of trouble by reviewing his own product for us

 

[Chago]

As seen above, Chago compares a $1000 AR, to his $5000 customized MV or MH. He is absolutely allowed to compare the end resaults (accuracy) but to say there is a 4k price difference is absurd when at least 1.5k is furniture options or a proof barrel upgrade, none of which makes it shoot groups better. As such I am argueing the point of cost. These firearms are not built equally, one is basic, the other is heavily modded. The MV/MH even in basic (3350 for MV/3700 for MH) is still heavily modded compared to a $1000 AR.

And because they are still miles apart in price and specs, the best way to have a fair comparison of value is to bring the AR up to the MV's most minimal specs, so that is what I did, and the difference (not including any cost for the new handguard to free float the aftermarket lilja barrel) would put a Basic AR (+Lilja barrel+Timney trigger+JP SCS buffer+Ambi bolt release) only approx $940 less then the MV comparable build which would be a basic $3350 build with no options.




1) yes, a comparable AR build to the MV Basic build is about only 30% cost difference.

2) I am sorry, but your model was not a basic option for that price, also I find it interesting how now you get to through tax and shipping in to the cost of the MV, but not your other rifle that you are compairing it too? Interesting way to make it look more expensive than your other options. Sounds like you you live in a ####ty spot, not the manufacturers fault.

3) If you did, you would not #### all over them price wise as I have explained above, and you would also note that your MH was an early production, one that had most likely been affected by the campin and or gasblock issue, both of which have since been addressed.

Since you neglect to do both of these (which would show fairness) it discredits you in my opinion to anyone who is aware of these 2 negligences. Im not saying you had trouble getting yours to shoot, I am also not saying yours wasn't $4600. What I am saying is your example likely had some issues you never had sorted out before you dumped it and was built to a significantly higher spec than the AR of which you chose to compare it too.


Incase its not clear yet, I was quoteing Chago comparing his $1000 AR to his $5000 MH. To me a $1000 dollar AR is pretty basic these days, luckiy if you are even getting a free float barrel at that price.

Ok I'll bite.

Since your making this look like I'm with holding facts or bending g the truth. Why don't we go through these together shall we.

1.) I never once compared my MH to a AR. You did. The post above you quoted so conveniently. I was re asking the question you were asking me. My post simply said. My nearly $5k MH shot worse then my $150 marlin x22. Do I need to quote it for you or are you capable or reading it yourself ? You then attacked me with a long write up on AR furniture. I don't even own a AR. Never have. So I don't speak on them and don't know what they cost.

2. My MH was $3995 before tax. So I apologize to the members of the jury. I comparison of the MH was Inflated with tax and shipping. So the true comoarison was $3995 to $150 marlin x22. Again cause you made AR comparison not me.

3. Once again. I layed my money down 6 months before. Did you ? And I am not ####ting on anyone. I said more then once on this thread and on others. I keep prefacing statements by saying I don't mean to hate on them. Cause I genuinely don't. But like I said. I have over a dozen bolt rifles that are precision rigs and shoot very tight groups. I have owned literally every NR black rifle in Canada. And I know I can't out shoot rob furlong. But I am capable of loading and shooting 5 shot 5 groups pages sub moa with a rifle capable of it. MY!!!!!!! MH could not. Not even if Rob furlong shot it. I am pretty sure the guy who bought from me sold it as well. And I agree ATRS has a great rep on the precision side. And I still buy there products. But I'm calling a spade a spade. There have been a lot more threads about poor performance then there have been about good. That should tell you something. I keep hearing the MH army come out with statements like yours. Questioning a shooters ability etc. But I never ever see one of you shut us up with some groups. Most of the MH arms don't even own one. Yet know so much.

Sorry edit. When I say more bad threads I mean about MH and MV not ATRS.

 

[Sqr]

I will purchase any individuals MV if they are contemplating selling it.

 

[Uisge]

I love my modern Hunter. There are many like it but this one is mine. If I could have an AR would I still love it? I don't know but I can't and it fills that hole in my safe. That's all I wanted, I didn't demand bolt gun accuracy from it, I'd like to achieve its peak performance but I'm not there yet. When I get there I'll let you all know. But for now I'm just happy to have it. It makes me happy, not sure why it makes some of you so upset, but maybe you should find something that makes you happy too.

 

[Mike112288]

Darn nice rifles but I too have mainly read accuracy complaints. I would assume such fine rifle could do moa for sure on a steady basis. 1.5" moa or so used to be unexcepable by my standards for a semi auto but having looked at a majority of other rifles id say it's not bad at all but if I was spending that much money I'd have to be getting moa at the absolute worst accuracy out of the gun. The acr seems to be getting moa at times. I wish the xcr was a consistent moa or better gun I like the feel of the xcr over the acr.

 

[alberta tactical rifle]

Well he's not going to do a positive review for free.
And he's not going to do a negative review for fear of being sued.

So kinda a kerfurkle.

I would suspect it would be more of a conflict of interest given who he works for.

 

[alberta tactical rifle]

To my knowledge he has 1 or more MH's allready.

He does own 1 in 6.5 CM and has expressed to us that it shoots and works extremely well.

 

[DT741]

I'm happy with my Core15 when I look at the "groupings" from your MV...

 

[TinkerBell]

edited

 

[cr5]

Just made a deal on a used MH in 6.5. Once I get a chance to run some factory and handloads through it I'll post the results.

Check my WTS ads to help me pay for it, lol.

 

[Zeroed-In]

Just made a deal on a used MH in 6.5. Once I get a chance to run some factory and handloads through it I'll post the results.

Check my WTS ads to help me pay for it, lol.

Don't forgrt to buck up first and make that factory ammo. the Premium Match quality kind.

D

 

[ianfroese]

From what I've seen first hand and also read so far about owners of MH's and MV's is that most of them are not very experienced shooters and many of them don't really understand that ammo selection plays a huge role in accuracy. I have yet to see anyone post a picture of a group printed using Federal Gold Medal Match or Nosler Match or Black Hills match ammo. It's always cheap ammo or handloads that worked well in a different rifle.

If the weather cooperates, this weekend I'll be comparing my MV to my KAC SR15 with FGMM. I also have some lighter, premium PMC that I'll try through my Swiss and the MV. I suspect I'm one of the ones that falls into your 'less experienced shooters' category. I'm fine with that. But if I outshoot my MV with my Swiss and KAC, I think that will be pretty telling. If they all shoot fairly similar, I'll be very happy

Hopefully the weather is good.

 

[cr5]

Don't forgrt to buck up first and make that factory ammo. the Premium Match quality kind.

D

Not sure you can get anything but quality ammo in 6.5

If the weather cooperates, this weekend I'll be comparing my MV to my KAC SR15 with FGMM. I also have some lighter, premium PMC that I'll try through my Swiss and the MV. I suspect I'm one of the ones that falls into your 'less experienced shooters' category. I'm fine with that. But if I outshoot my MV with my Swiss and KAC, I think that will be pretty telling. If they all shoot fairly similar, I'll be very happy

Hopefully the weather is good.

Good luck, you'll probably find that one rifle prefers one type of ammo and the other prefers a different type. Don't expect the MV to like the same stuff as the SA.
Experienced or not one constant will be shooter skill so it will still be a good test.
It will be interesting to see the results.

I'm kinda hoping that my M305 doesn't sell too quickly so I have a chance to compare it's accuracy to the MH, with a Kreiger barrel in the 305 it should be a good shooter. If it outshoots the MH I might be selling the MH instead, lol.