The New American Sidearm: Sig Sauer M17
- Thread starter B.H.B
- Start date
hatman1793
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
P320...Ugh! Not impressive from any standpoint. One step above the P250....
Sig didn't win anything, they only beat the far superior Glock 17 on price! Even the S&P M&P is better.
Whomever put "modularity" into the Army's RFP was not thinking on the same plane as most. Caliber chassis changes (on the frame) is the same mistake the Army made when they accepted the S&W top break revolver in S&W American along with the Colt SAA in 45 Colt. One caliber fit both guns but....if you got the wrong ammo, your S&W was toast.
Sig didn't win anything, they only beat the far superior Glock 17 on price! Even the S&P M&P is better.
Whomever put "modularity" into the Army's RFP was not thinking on the same plane as most. Caliber chassis changes (on the frame) is the same mistake the Army made when they accepted the S&W top break revolver in S&W American along with the Colt SAA in 45 Colt. One caliber fit both guns but....if you got the wrong ammo, your S&W was toast.
Hatman you have Glock blindness. What was the price offered by Glock vs the SIG? You seem to think that was the criteria you must have the numbers. The M&P was gone early so I am not sure how it could be better. What makes the Glock 17 a better pistol. Its ergonomics, terrible trigger or the guns cheap plastic sights. The SIG 320 has excellent sights, a very smooth trigger I am told and met the US Army's criteria. Your beloved but old design that is the Glock lost to a better pistol....move on. My favourite polymer gun, the M&P. lost out to a better design for the US Army. Doesn't mean I am going to burn my shorts over their decision. Nor am I going to sell off my M&P's. They serve me well as I am sure your Glock serves your needs well.
Was there ever an instance where those armed with the SAA received ammo for the Smith to break revolver? I doubt it ever was an issue. The Smith was in many ways a better revolver. Ths SAA was and remains prone to breakage and was a poor hammer, like most revolvers, if mud got near it. There was a reason why by the end of the 19th century the Army was looking around for a pistol as a replacement....enter the 1911.
Take Care
Bob
Was there ever an instance where those armed with the SAA received ammo for the Smith to break revolver? I doubt it ever was an issue. The Smith was in many ways a better revolver. Ths SAA was and remains prone to breakage and was a poor hammer, like most revolvers, if mud got near it. There was a reason why by the end of the 19th century the Army was looking around for a pistol as a replacement....enter the 1911.
Take Care
Bob
- Location
- Southern Ontario
sorry for the late reply....between work and spending the rest of my time at the range..lol
paid a smidge over $1100
still waiting on paper/putting rounds through it but....first "shpwroom" observations:
as you note further down the thread, the trigger does feel pretty damn awesome
finding the irons through the romeo is a bit of work. a slightly taller set would have been ideal imo. I feel the 3 moa red-dot was a good choice as well
will report back once some paper is hit
it feels like it will be a nice productive piece down range. maybe not as nice as my p226s but I didn't expect it to be. I think this lady will surprise me though
"Sounds like Bovine Scattology to me".
- Stormin' Norman Schwartzkopf: referring to the claimed superiority of Glock to the M9 Beretta during the first Gulf War. The General carried a presentation grade stainless Sig P225 given to him by German Chancellor Helmet Kohl.
If you had a NIB Colt 1911 you would be a very very old man. I doubt you will live long enough to achieve any appreciable gain in value on any firearm.
They haven't won the contract yet as Glock has filed a formal protest regarding the pistol trials. Word on other forums by purported people in the know is that the US Army had laid out specific testing to include durability tests for their MHS trials. The word on the street is that these durability tests were never done. As a point of interest the 320 failed the durability tests for the FBI when they were looking for a new service pistol, they were beat out by Glock.
I have to again point out the irony regarding the"anything but Glock" polymer pistol lovers. For years people poo poo'd Glocks because they were polymer, had no external/positive safeties, and were striker fired. Now everyone and their dog makes a striker fired polymer pistol and some have even tried several times to make a better version. The 320 is no exception here and the funnies continue when you hear pro 320 fans talk about how amazing the pistol is and then get right angry when you tell them it's nothing but a 250 without a hammer. Have a look at the video below where the Yankee Marshall shows you how the 250 and 320 have identical frames and can in fact have their internals swapped and work. Hardly a "from the ground up" design.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOKt96CpCbo
Or this:http://taskandpurpose.com/sig-sauer-p320-steyr-arms/
Or this(although not 320 related):http://taskandpurpose.com/new-jerse...upplying-troopers-dangerously-defective-guns/
Just type in SIG 320 problems on google or youtube..
There seems to be a logic problem here. Is it that you believe NIB Colt 1911's (i.e: Serial 1-1000) don't exist.? It could be passed down from generation to generation, for example. Such presentation grade firearms are rare, but do exist in private collections, museums, etc...
Pretty sure he just said they were old. Not sure where you invented the 'don't exist' idea from.
I agree with Kidd X - If you, BHB, live long enough that your Sig is a rare collectors item, I applaud you as well as science.
Pretty sure he just said they were old. Not sure where you invented the 'don't exist' idea from.
I agree with Kidd X - If you, BHB, live long enough that your Sig is a rare collectors item, I applaud you as well as science.
You're suffering from the same failure in logic. I suggest you read the posts carefully next time. Maybe use a ruler so you don't miss lines.
He literally said "if you had a NIB Colt 1911, you'd be a very very old man." Granted, you could have received it from your grandfather, but he never said they don't exit. We all know there are collector grades Colts out there.
This post was about how your Plastic Fantastic Sig P320 will be a collector. And it won't. Sorry to burst your dream investment bubble.
I'm not sure I'd try to reason with him. He/she is still calling their P320 a M17, and spelling SIG as Sig. Anyone who doesn't bow to the superiority of the 320 is going to be a "hater". To be honest, I have a sneaking suspicion it might be an alt account for someone else I haven't seen around here lately.
I agree. I do the same thing with SIG all the time too even though I know it's an acronym. I can admit when I'm wrong though. I was going to back up my point by showing the NIB price for a 1982 production Glock 17. It proved me wrong though since the max American price is $500 no matter when it was made or what condition. I'm not a Glock guy but I thought there'd be a presentation grade somewhere worth more than that.
Regardless it's not an American company. I find it odd that the US military procurement arm religiously purchases made in America for nearly if not most of its weapons and frowns on foreign made. However they seem to buck this trend with their pistols .
I am not insinuating the SIG is an inferior product as much as I feel they should buy from within.
FN makes AR's for the US military as well. With companies being held by publicly held conglomerates these days it is hard to describe any company as a US or Canadian company given the listing of stock on a world wide basis. The Beretta M9's were, for all but the first copies, made in the US as are the SIG's. The US, like Canada wants the labour to be their nationals, after that...not so much. Canada has an agreement with the US for offsets. We buy a dollar worth of military wear from them and they by a similar amount from us. I think that is how it works if memory serves me correctly. The Colt 1911 was the last US general service pistol wholly attributed to a US group of companies AFAIK and that ended back in the mid 80's when the Beretta was selected.
The US marines use the Benelli M4 shotgun so the US does range afield.
B.H.B making a Glock presentation model would be the ultimate example of putting lipstick on a pig. Just saying. That said asking close to $1,000Cdn for a Glock 17 is pretty rude in itself.
Take Care
Bob
