Kriss Vector 10mmAuto Carbine Review.

I'd need to check bc regs. It has caliber and bullet mass, but would be down on energy compared to a rifle. Ballistics on 180's at 1400fps show a decent 150yd range using .188 as ballistic coefficient

Humane on a deer for heart lung shot. Elk? I do not think so unless you can get within 75-80 yards
 
Well, after trying 3 different loads Titegroup and WSF, and Silhouette, the 200's are not looking good. But they work well in the GLOCK.

So, Until I chrono, the jury is out. I shouldn't really comment a whole lot without chrono data, but currently I am thinking there is too much drag with the 200gn bullets in the long barrel.

That theory may prove to be true since the muzzle report is so much less.

I cannot crank up any more speed because I am showing some mild flowing at the firing pin mark. Titegroups pressure curve is scary enough by 10ths, and at 5.2 I am showing more than mild pressure signs. Groups were tightening up, but pressures were limiting me.

I may look into a couple slower powders, and possibly contact hodgdon directly and see if they can offer some advice. I need more speed and the 3 powders listed above are giving me fits.

Any suggestions from fellow reloaders will be welcome :)

Please note although I am loading max COAL to GLOCK mag, I am not engaging the rifling in the Vector even with the longer than SAAMI spec rounds.
I have also tried shortening to SAAMI spec and pressure signs got worse.

Anyone with other powder suggestions?
 
Got Juice? said:
Anyone with other powder suggestions?
Click to expand...

Blue Dot is probably considered the classic powder for hot loads with heavy bullets and lots of guys like 800X for the heavy loads. According to my Hornady manual a max load of Blue Dot under a 200gr bullet is 9.4gr, so it isn't as touchy to load as the titegroup and other faster powders.


Mark
 
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mmattockx said:
Blue Dot is probably considered the classic powder for hot loads with heavy bullets and lots of guys like 800X for the heavy loads. According to my Hornady manual a max load of Blue Dot under a 200gr bullet is 9.4gr, so it isn't as touchy to load as the titegroup and other faster powders.


Mark
Click to expand...

Thanks Mark! I will order some blue dot and try again :)
 
Got Juice? said:
Well, after trying 3 different loads Titegroup and WSF, and Silhouette, the 200's are not looking good. But they work well in the GLOCK.

So, Until I chrono, the jury is out. I shouldn't really comment a whole lot without chrono data, but currently I am thinking there is too much drag with the 200gn bullets in the long barrel.

That theory may prove to be true since the muzzle report is so much less.

I cannot crank up any more speed because I am showing some mild flowing at the firing pin mark. Titegroups pressure curve is scary enough by 10ths, and at 5.2 I am showing more than mild pressure signs. Groups were tightening up, but pressures were limiting me.

I may look into a couple slower powders, and possibly contact hodgdon directly and see if they can offer some advice. I need more speed and the 3 powders listed above are giving me fits.

Any suggestions from fellow reloaders will be welcome :)

Please note although I am loading max COAL to GLOCK mag, I am not engaging the rifling in the Vector even with the longer than SAAMI spec rounds.
I have also tried shortening to SAAMI spec and pressure signs got worse.

Anyone with other powder suggestions?
Click to expand...

None of the powders you are using are really suitable for maximum velocity. Blue Dot, AA9 and Longshot are the best powders I have used. Longshot will push a 180JHP to almost 1700fps out of a rifle length barrel. 800X will give you absolute highest velocity but weighing every charge is a PITA.
 
Guess who had fun today with 500 rounds of Winchester 175gn Silvertips? Yes.MEEEE!

it was a nasty gusty 30mph wind day today. But since we are dealing with slow and heavy (relative to rifle) pistol rounds we can at least hit a target. Please note, I slept at a Holiday Inn last night, and once dressed, went to the range.

Spoiler alert, I had a lot of fun.


pulled out the chrono, and a fresh 9V battery for testing. Seems there IS more velocity to the longer barrel, but more drag from rifling, so after firing crap ammo, some privi, some WWhite box, and the Win Silvertips I can confidently say that whatever the box says, just add 140fps and you are +/- 10fps on the boxes advertised speeds. Since I had the most ammo being the Silvertips, AVG velocity was 1492 over 60 rounds.

Now that this is out of the way, the 50M group was a disaster. It completely tore out the center of my target. So far, so good, under an inch.

100M was where things fell apart as the wind was gusting all over the darn place. That being said, after 4 sighters to get my zero to an acceptable range of 100m, I started to work on a group. The WORST group was my handloaded 200gn bullets and titegroup. Since my Longshot has not arrived yet, I am reserving judgement. But a 5" group with a 200gn projectile moving at 1300fps is not bad, and made the 100M gong ring and move about 50% more swing than the 556x45 PMC Xtac factory ammo out of my CC IUR

The best group to date was from the Winchester Silvertips (shudder... for the record I dislike winchester ammo, but when it is all you have in a 1 horse town, STFU and ride the pony.)
So with a speed of almost 1500fps on a 175gn hollowpoint (the bullets ARE PURDY though) the 100M group was 2.75 inches off a mediocre caldwell rest. Considering the atmospherics, and quality of the shooter, etc, in capable hands, with some work, I maintain this is a 2.5"@100M gun.

Now for the fun part. Equipped with a sophisticated and unparallelled knowledge of internal and external ballistics, I managed to make some estimates on shooting the 200M gong. from my 100M zero, still shooting silvertips with my Sightron STAC 1-7 mounted I had to drop 7 mils of elevation (1:1@7x) and wouldn't you know it. I hit the gong. Offhand. First shot. Was I stunned? you bet your ass i was, but with 2 witnesses there looking at you, I tried to act casual and I said, well look at that... Pretty good guess eh?

What does one do after rapping the 200m gong freehand? Well, you do it again of course! In fact, I went 7/10 on one mag, then 8/10 on another!!!

I am not great shooter, but 2 witnesses were as stunned as I was. 1 shot could be a fluke, but 15?

I then equipped both witnesses with 2 mags each and told them the elevation correction, and wouldn't you know it. Shooter #1 went 11/20 and shooter 2 from a bench went 18/20.

I love love love love this gun in 10mmAuto

That's all I have for now until my powder order arrives. I really like the Vector, no matter what caliber you buy, I think you will be impressed. But be warned, seeing a 14" Gong made of AR500 3/4" thick swing like that.... where a 5.56 would only move it a little....

Addicting.
 
On another note. Speaking to an RCMP officer today, I mentioned (range conversation) why doesn't the RCMP use the Glock 10mm or 40 or 9 and get the companion carbine in 10 or 40 or 9.

Less gear and mags to pack (and less cost), outstanding package, easy to use, easy to swing, accurate to 100M easily, 200 if you need to stretch the legs a little, and leave the 200+M stuff to the AR type platform that you have in the trunk?

The reply was something along the lines of 'We are so over-regimented, that kind of forward thinking would never occur in our outfit'

Too bad really. The Vector on it's own is a fine gun in it's own right, but paired with the GLOCK that shares same ammo, mags etc, the total package is just too compelling not to look at in a serious manner :(
 
Got Juice? said:
Well, after trying 3 different loads Titegroup and WSF, and Silhouette, the 200's are not looking good. But they work well in the GLOCK.

So, Until I chrono, the jury is out. I shouldn't really comment a whole lot without chrono data, but currently I am thinking there is too much drag with the 200gn bullets in the long barrel.

That theory may prove to be true since the muzzle report is so much less.

I cannot crank up any more speed because I am showing some mild flowing at the firing pin mark. Titegroups pressure curve is scary enough by 10ths, and at 5.2 I am showing more than mild pressure signs. Groups were tightening up, but pressures were limiting me.

I may look into a couple slower powders, and possibly contact hodgdon directly and see if they can offer some advice. I need more speed and the 3 powders listed above are giving me fits.

Any suggestions from fellow reloaders will be welcome :)

Please note although I am loading max COAL to GLOCK mag, I am not engaging the rifling in the Vector even with the longer than SAAMI spec rounds.
I have also tried shortening to SAAMI spec and pressure signs got worse.

Anyone with other powder suggestions?
Click to expand...

I load my 10mm with 800x. Nice and spicy :)

I just sold my second gen 1 Vector, great little pcc. I was able to ring the 12 inch gong at 200 yards with mine fairly regularly with the irons once I figured out the holdover. I'm sure one in 10mm would do it even easier.
I was going to have my first one converted to 10mm by Ian at Herron but sold it instead.
 
beltfed said:
As an aside to your review of the carbine, how are you liking the Sightron STac?
Click to expand...

I`m curious about one of those too as I`m in the market for something decent in the 1-8x range so have narrowed it down to this or the Trijicon (STAC is a bargain relatively speaking)

Does anyone know if Sightron make 2 versions of the 1-7x? i.e. STAC & Siii versions? Or just STAC?

I recently picked a 4-16x STAC and was blown away by the eye relief and how clear/bright the glass was considering the price point. Only thing I found was that the reticle was very fine which is a double edged sword - it can be hard to see but its better for accuracy
 
beltfed said:
As an aside to your review of the carbine, how are you liking the Sightron STac?
Click to expand...

Sniffer said:
I`m curious about one of those too as I`m in the market for something decent in the 1-8x range so have narrowed it down to this or the Trijicon (STAC is a bargain relatively speaking)

Does anyone know if Sightron make 2 versions of the 1-7x? i.e. STAC & Siii versions? Or just STAC?

I recently picked a 4-16x STAC and was blown away by the eye relief and how clear/bright the glass was considering the price point. Only thing I found was that the reticle was very fine which is a double edged sword - it can be hard to see but its better for accuracy
Click to expand...

I bought the STac 1-7 for my AR after being disappointed with Strike Eagle and Bushnell offerings. Even sold a Swarovski 1-6 :)

The Sightron only gives up field of view compared to the Swaro at 1x (99 for Sightron and about 112 for the swaro)
The flass between the Sightron and Swarovski were the same.

So, when another Stac 1-7 popped up on the EE I bought it immediately. There is really nothing in the Sightrons class when it comes to performance. Factor in its cost, and the bang for the buck quotient is off the charts.

Now I am looking to purchase another for my 30-06 hunting rifle.

I have my suspicions that the 1-7 stac uses SIII Glass and focusing elements.

Owning 2 of these and wanting another one should indicate how good it is. I am fussy with optics, and simply want the best regardless of cost. I dumped the Swaro simply because Sightron offered the same performance at a better price point.

I suppose Sightron could hype and advertise and promote the line better. But they choose to spend money on the optic over advertising i guess.

In any event, i run the mil reticle in the 1-7's and prefer it over moa in this platform.

My Colt IUR and my Vector both wear Stac 1-7's and the only comment to make is that you will need more height on the rail. My ADM mount required a rail spacer on the Vector for proper eye alignment and cheeck weld. This spacer was not needed on the Colt IUR.
 
Got Juice? said:
I bought the STac 1-7 for my AR after being disappointed with Strike Eagle and Bushnell offerings. Even sold a Swarovski 1-6 :)

The Sightron only gives up field of view compared to the Swaro at 1x (99 for Sightron and about 112 for the swaro)
The flass between the Sightron and Swarovski were the same.

So, when another Stac 1-7 popped up on the EE I bought it immediately. There is really nothing in the Sightrons class when it comes to performance. Factor in its cost, and the bang for the buck quotient is off the charts.

Now I am looking to purchase another for my 30-06 hunting rifle.

I have my suspicions that the 1-7 stac uses SIII Glass and focusing elements.

Owning 2 of these and wanting another one should indicate how good it is. I am fussy with optics, and simply want the best regardless of cost. I dumped the Swaro simply because Sightron offered the same performance at a better price point.

I suppose Sightron could hype and advertise and promote the line better. But they choose to spend money on the optic over advertising i guess.

In any event, i run the mil reticle in the 1-7's and prefer it over moa in this platform.

My Colt IUR and my Vector both wear Stac 1-7's and the only comment to make is that you will need more height on the rail. My ADM mount required a rail spacer on the Vector for proper eye alignment and cheeck weld. This spacer was not needed on the Colt IUR.
Click to expand...

I too am fussy on optics - I have a Strike Eagle and, for me, its a bit "meh" - it will most likely end up on one of my .22s

Would the STAC 1-7x fit in a 30mm PEPR mount?
 
I have a Sightron S-Tac 3-16x42 and for under $1000 I don't think there is anything out there that can touch it.
I'll take Sightron over Vortex any day and I own a Viper PST 1-4x24 and a PST 4-16x50, used to own a PST 6-24x50 and a Sightron SIII 6-24x50 as well. The Vortex has illumination and zero-stop but those are just gizmo's that aren't really needed. I think of Vortex kinda like a Dodge vehicle, they come with all the bells and whistles for a good price but end up needing more warranty service than the others.
 
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