Vanguard S2 vs Tikka t3

kawicrash said:
I just sold my Howa 1500 223 (may end up regretting that) and while essentially the same, the Weatherby does have a few minor differences. Interestingly, the bolts would not interchange.
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Cocking piece and bolt shroud are the difference, if you remove them the stripped bolt body should interchange without issue... I may try later tonight to confirm.
Ok....so a Vanguard stripped bolt will go in a Howa but not the other way around. The primary extraction cam is slightly different between the 2. Howa is like a Mauser... squared up where the handle meets the body, and the extraction cam is all on the receiver.
Vanguard is like a Remington... where the handle/bolt body meet is angled with a 15-20 degree cam, which mates up with the receiver cam which is approx 45 degrees but starts higher then the Howa.
I should probably have taken pictures... nobody is going to know WTF I'm talking about lol.
 
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Hitzy,

I appreciated your explanation. If you could take pictures that would be awesome. I am having a little trouble with my mind's eye picturing everything.
Is one a better design than the other?
 
Ok...here are the pics of the difference in extraction cams... ultimately very little noticeable difference, not a big enough deal to base a purchase on. The Vanguard is slightly smoother in that transition then the Howa...not a lot, but noticeable if you are looking for it. Howa is the semi-polished blued, Vanguard us the matte finish.
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They are both good rifles. The vanguard is probably a better buy as it seems the tikkas are going for around $900 now. When tikkas were $650 I would say they were a better buy. I own tikkas only because I can get them in left hand config. I would certainly have a collection of vanguards if they made them in South paw.
 
Hitzy said:
Right, the tikka has a regular threaded barrel. But still has all those other deficiencies.
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Hard to imagine how those things are deficiencies.

Owned both, both are great rifles. Anything that's going to break a Tikka bolt handle off with that massive dovetail will bend a one piece bolt handle. The Rem 700 handle is soldered on for heaven's sake, and it doesn't go dropping off regularly.

I have yet to read an account of a T3 trigger guard or magazine breaking, in fact I'd say they're more robust than the alloy and sheet metal equivalents on the S2.

The T3X has a steel recoil lug now, and you can get one for the T3 if required. A $30 part. Not a deciding factor for me at 3% of the cost of the rifle.

I prefer the 2 stage trigger, but that's personal preference.

Unless weight or barrel length is a deciding factor, I'd go with the S2 based on price. Either will get the job done.
 
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The real comparison is the vanguard backcountry which weighs in at 6 3/4 lbs. and as yet have no explanation as to why its almost double the price of an s2 and 400 more than a tikka.
 
The tikka's shrouds seem to break apart. The loading port is small. They have a loseable magazine. The s2 stock seems to be better quality. Vanguard has been the best bang for your buck for quite a few years. Weight and lack of lefty is their only downfall.
 
flashman2 said:
Hard to imagine how those things are deficiencies.

Owned both, both are great rifles. Anything that's going to break a Tikka bolt handle off with that massive dovetail will bend a one piece bolt handle. The Rem 700 handle is soldered on for heaven's sake, and it doesn't go dropping off regularly.

I have yet to read an account of a T3 trigger guard or magazine breaking, in fact I'd say they're more robust than the alloy and sheet metal equivalents on the S2.

The T3X has a steel recoil lug now, and you can get one for the T3 if required. A $30 part. Not a deciding factor for me at 3% of the cost of the rifle.

I prefer the 2 stage trigger, but that's personal preference.

Unless weight or barrel length is a deciding factor, I'd go with the S2 based on price. Either will get the job done.
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The separate recoil lug can create play after hard use which can affect accuracy....done solely to cheapen manufacturing.
Plastic parts are not as durable as alloy/steel...done to cheapen manufacturing.
Separate bolt handle can create some play after extensive use, done to cheapen manufacturing.
Tikka syn stock is cheap crap. Overall the rifle is not as well built as the Howa/Vanguard rifles and the retail price is ridiculous.
Rem700 isn't either for that matter.
 
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Gotta love the CGN myth of all these trigger guards shattering, bolt shrouds blowing off...bolts rattling loose on T3s....Ridiculous and made up by guys manufacturing aftermarket parts for profit on these rifles then parroted by a select few on gun boards.
 
scott_r said:
Gotta love the CGN myth of all these trigger guards shattering, bolt shrouds blowing off...bolts rattling loose on T3s....Ridiculous and made up by guys manufacturing aftermarket parts for profit on these rifles then parroted by a select few on gun boards.
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Yes, and the batch of stainless Tikka's that blew up a little over 10 years ago was also a myth I guess too.
 
scott_r said:
Gotta love the CGN myth of all these trigger guards shattering, bolt shrouds blowing off...bolts rattling loose on T3s....Ridiculous and made up by guys manufacturing aftermarket parts for profit on these rifles then parroted by a select few on gun boards.
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I haven't seen any damaged trigger guards, but I have seen broken shrouds and enough pictures of the same to know that it isn't a myth. I can't help it if you're in denial.
Why has tikka changed their design in the new t3? And with their "improvements" they have added 40% to the price
 
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Hitzy said:
The separate recoil lug can create play after hard use which can affect accuracy....done solely to cheapen manufacturing.
Plastic parts are not as durable as alloy/steel...done to cheapen manufacturing.
Separate bolt handle can create some play after extensive use, done to cheapen manufacturing.
Tikka syn stock is cheap crap. Overall the rifle is not as well built as the Howa/Vanguard rifles and the retail price is ridiculous.
Rem700 isn't either for that matter.
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Definitely the old alloy recoil lug on the larger cals could be a problem. But the fix is cheap and simple. One minor ding, IMHO.

I put over 10k rounds through a T3 Varmint... bolt handle had no wear on it at all. Is that extensive enough use to lay that concern to rest?

The stocks definitely aren't nice, but they sure are totally functional.

I'm very impressed with the S2 for the price, hard to fault much for well under a K. Accuracy isn't on par or even close to Tikka, but more than good enough for hunting work. I like the weight for it in. 270, makes it a real pussycat to shoot...
 
I have a S2 DBM. Got it for 699 in a Montreal shop. Great shooter for sure. Like everyone said, tad heavy but for me it doesn't matter. Can't comment on the T3, never got one, but I'm sure either rifle will serve you well.
 
444shooter said:
I have owned both, and the S2 has always been more consistently accurate.
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No complaint here either, my 243 as is/out of the box 100m.
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223 with the cheapest reloads I could put together... surplus WC735 powder, bulk 55gr FMJ 100m.
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Thing is these rifles will last forever, there is no skimping or corners cut making these. My grandkids grandkids will be shooting these rifles some day. They remind me of how '98 Mausers were made...built to last, every single piece.
 
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