Rem 783 - Some Range Testing - post 18
- Thread starter Mystic Precision
- Start date
This post also gets me. Clearly you are selling rifle builds (working in conjunction with Black Art Rifle Company, whoever the hell they are - https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/for...uilding-and-gunsmithing-services-PICS-OF-WORK) and you also imply selling parts in this thread for the rem 783 - https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/for...246-Rem-783-PRS-Tactical-Uses-Savage-Prefits-), and you directly state "I have been working to secure some direction on availability of parts.".
So even though you have stated that you have no financial interest in the 783, you clearly do. You clearly stand to gain financially by convincing people to get the rem 783.
This also spells it out pretty clearly:
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- Location
- chilliwack BC.
people like to try new things, use things that everyone else isn't and "go the road less travelled" I have done this in many aspects of my life.
Hell, if we never try anything new because there are other things there already, we'd be quite a ways behind technologically.
- Location
- chilliwack BC.
oh cmon man, he clearly sells parts for many many other rifles out there, including all the ones mentioned in other posts.
Even Ray Charles can see that he is a strong proponent for only the things he sells *cough* Sightron *cough* and slams everything else...
Bubba Yugga
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Midwestern Ontario
So where do these ad hominem attacks fit into the 783 discussion?
It appears that the most vicious detractors have never 'smithed a 783 action themselves.
Copernicus was nearly put to death for daring to suggest that the earth went around the sun.
And we all know what the Romans did to Jesus.
Choose your words sweetly, lest you must eat them.
Bottom line is this, the 783 action does absolutely nothing that several others don't do as well and what many others do better. Even if it matches the BEST out there, you can't put a pre fit on it and compete in the factory class, so you are selling a "Newbie" a product to compete against the best in the sport, not exactly a great way to help the "Newbie" out. And, you said yourself you need to make modifications to stocks and bottom metal to get it to work, where is the advantage in that? I am happy for you that you "approve" of it's worthiness, but don't think for a second that the rest of don't do the same testing and evaluating on our chosen platforms.
If you were to become a dealer for anything firearms related, would you not choose brands that you personally use and enjoy? I don't know Jerry at all but common sense would dictate he supports and deals in Sightron because he likes their products. You've made it very clear several times already in this thread that you don't agree with Jerry's opinion. You also started another thread to push your opinion on others which you have every right to do. With that being said though, how much more attention do you need? I follow this thread to see how far Jerry can develop his 783, not to see you whine.
AND everyone else that has PRS experience. I think people are sick and tired of Jerry misleading others. I have plenty of PM's that prove that.
This topic has been posted publicly, and he's posting his views on what he thinks the best budget PRS rig. EVERYONE that has shot PRS here strongly disagrees, and for good reason. If this was just about his 783 science experiment and how that was coming along for him, then he should have just kept this in his dealer sub-forum.
So how many more times do you need to voice this negativity before you can sleep well at night? Anyone new to PRS that's reading this thread has been thoroughly warned of the dangers of starting off with this platform by you and a few other posters. Isn't it time you moved on to something else?
I don't think that the real problem with this (and, perhaps another similar thread) can be laid at the feet of any latent dislike of Jerry nor are these threads evidence of an inherently obscurantist attitude amongst gun owners but rather I think that the emotions run hot because of two fundamental problems - one of which is, in fact, of Jerry's making while the other is not.
As I see it the problems are: one, the recommendation to NEWER SHOOTERS ( no one cares if it is recommended to experienced people ) of a fairly new and, in the main, unsupported product ( the 783 ). The very experienced shooters and gunsmiths on this thread feel this recommendation is unwise and feel that aspects of Jerry's recommendations are unsafe or, at least, most questionable. The second problem - and this is one of Jerry's own making - is that he has developed a reputation of only recommending products that he can sell. Whether this perception is factually accurate or not is debatable but it arose some years ago, gathered steam out of his ardent promotion of Sightron for which he is a dealer ( incidentally, Sightron are a good 'value buy' - I've owned many ) and fully blossomed around the time of his critique of the Razor II ( Jerry does not sell Vortex ). Is this fair ? Likely not - dealers often recommend 'their' brand - but it has cost Jerry something and that is that in the eyes of many he is no longer considered 'objective' and that perceived lack of objectivity causes people to make assertions such as we have seen herein.
I think it difficult for business people to retain genuine objectivity as it is too easy to fall in love with what you sell and discount that which you do not - heck, as some of you know I maintain a website ( hobby - no money ) and I, too prefer certain products over others and can be biased etc. but since I don't sell a darn thing it isn't quite so contentious. Honestly, I think a lot of the criticism that Jerry attracts could be ameliorated by less avid promotional work by him but, on the other hand, it is a business and he must make his money as he sees fit. Choosing the route he has chosen opens him up for criticism here ( where he is somewhat protected by the mods ) and elsewhere.
I think it would also be reasonable to have that experiment in this forum. Even a dealer should be able to experiment with some random rifle and show the results in a general topic subforum related to that type of gun.
I can't see the problem with anyone - particularly anyone with data - saying "This is a great X."
I would definitely question anyone claiming "this is a great X for Y" if they had not attempted Y.
That's a great way of breaking down this problem. If we look at join dates it's clear you and several others have more experience with Jerry than I do. From someone who's relatively new to all this I just find that you guys are beating a dead horse and for some it has gotten personal. When I was brand new to shooting I loved this forum because it was a place where anyone could come and gain valuable information in a positive environment. Threads like this aren't good for anyone.
Thank you for the kind words regarding my assessment and, yes, some of us will naturally have more history ( good and bad ) with Jerry than will others. I fear that the quality of commentary on this site has deteriorated - many very experienced people have left and even 'wannabe hack reviewers' like me rarely post reviews etc. here anymore - and likely there are a number of reasons for this qualitative degrading but, again, CGN is a business and Greentips is a smart fellow who runs the site as he chooses. I do disagree with you on one point and that is that threads like this do serve a purpose; the debate (vigorous and sometimes salty though it may be ) is clearly informative and points out to new people that there are at least two schools of thought on almost every issue.
One thing to be aware of for any new shooter is that customization will push them into Open Division where they will be competing against pro shooters that fire 10k+ rounds a year and can shoot off barricades better than many can shoot from prone. The Production Division is intended for beginners using budget equipment and matches that recognize the divisions have an award and a decent prize set aside for Production Division so that new shooters have a chance to win something while competing against other new shooters.
There are also spots at the Finale for Production Division that a new shooter would have a far better shot at qualifying for than they would in Open Division.
There are also spots at the Finale for Production Division that a new shooter would have a far better shot at qualifying for than they would in Open Division.
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Geeeezz guys ..... this tread to me is just a guy trying to take a cheap action as far as he can.... just because.
I don't care if it's the best action choice for F-Class or PRS or whatever.... I don't care if it's throwing good money after bad..... I'm diggin' the whole experiment for what it is.
Would I go this route ? Hell no, I'd get a GA Precision or the like, but it's a fun and educational read so I appreciate Jerry's experiment.
I don't care if it's the best action choice for F-Class or PRS or whatever.... I don't care if it's throwing good money after bad..... I'm diggin' the whole experiment for what it is.
Would I go this route ? Hell no, I'd get a GA Precision or the like, but it's a fun and educational read so I appreciate Jerry's experiment.
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
Just back in from a great day at testing at the Rattlesnake range in Washington... time to prep for the final LR championship of the season this weekend.... after a nice meal and drinks with other competitors.
madashell, thanks for the stating the obvious and glad that you have gotten some benefits from the experiment.
But it seems some have decided to take this from a simple chat about a new option in affordable bolt action precision to a mud slinging fest where innuendo, unverified opinions can be held out as fact.
In my personal and business life, I choose not to stoop to these types of tactics. Agree, disagree... that is the fun of a debate on the parts or tech we enjoy.... but it's a debate on the parts and tech.
I will not bother with those who choose to throw out personal attacks as a way to discredit and influence a debate.
I really appreciate all the pms and emails from those looking for more info. I will continue to post my adventures on my facebook page. Find and like me at mystic precision inc
I think there are some very exciting changes that can happen with this platform. Funny the things you dream up on a 5 hour trip to a match...
If the mods want to close this thread, feel free. I am done and will not be responding to this thread.
And what were we testing???? I will say the tests were awesome and there will be big announcements coming... Like me on facebook and get all the info.
Have a great Thanksgiving....
Jerry
All the best with this Jerry. Glad you're ignoring the BS.
I have some great rifles but can actually see purchasing a 783 as a "beater rifle" because there's no doubt to me it's the best choice of the budget offerings.
(except for the Vanguard S2 when they're practically giving them away ... hard to beat).
Sure is cool to observe how far you're taking it.
Have a good one and keep pushing the limits !
I have some great rifles but can actually see purchasing a 783 as a "beater rifle" because there's no doubt to me it's the best choice of the budget offerings.
(except for the Vanguard S2 when they're practically giving them away ... hard to beat).
Sure is cool to observe how far you're taking it.
Have a good one and keep pushing the limits !
