280 AI or 270 WSM?

Owned my .270 WSM ten years now. Plenty of production ammo and it's killed everything I've shot at.

But it's a coin flip. I'd get a .280ai in a kimber any day of the week. But I'd also do it over again with the short mag. Love the idea of a faster and flatter .270 Winchester for the mountains. Like a modern day jack o'conner
 
If this debate was about any other manufacturer I'd choose the 270wsm. But the 84L is so much cleaner than the 8400...280ai all day long.
 
freddyfour said:
Just looking at Accubonds, the 140gr .277 BC is .495 and the 7mm is .485 and the 160's Partitions are .435 for the. 277 and. 475 for the 7mm. Seems comparable to me.
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What would you compare to 180 Grain 7mm VLDs at .673, 175 gr AB LRs at .672 or 195 grain EOLs at .755? If you did find something, what would you shoot it out of? There's an entire world of shooting that the .270 never really showed up for.

Its not like I hate .270s or anything, I've got 2 Wins, 2 Weatherbys and 1 WSM. 4 out of 5 got hung up at 130s for accuracy, though one is cheerful with the 140 Accubond. The 160 Partition is surprisingly friendly, but a long range bullet it isn't. I'd like to find one that would shoot the 270 AB LR, but no luck so far.
 
Dogleg said:
The selection of heavier high BC bullets in .277" is rather sparse, I tend to
blame that on faster than 1-10" being rarer than 4 point unicorns. Bit of a chicken and the egg thing going there.
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What is the twist rate on Kimbers with a 284 bore. I believe my Montana 7mm wsm was advertised as a 1-10 twist.
 
Just different applications in my eyes, .277s and .284s. If you want light and fast .270s are your deal, and if you want long range with VLDs it's 7mm all day long. If you want both options only 7mm can do it. For the inside 500 yards stuff, and even more so 400, the fast and lights usually make it easier for the shooter, I've ranted about my preference for 300 yard zeros a good deal already and won't bore folks with it again. But that was a little easier to do with my .270 WSM than my .280AI, through a combination of a smidge more speed and lighter bullets of reputation.
 
Dogleg said:
What would you compare to 180 Grain 7mm VLDs at .673, 175 gr AB LRs at .672 or 195 grain EOLs at .755? If you did find something, what would you shoot it out of? There's an entire world of shooting that the .270 never really showed up for.

Its not like I hate .270s or anything, I've got 2 Wins, 2 Weatherbys and 1 WSM. 4 out of 5 got hung up at 130s for accuracy, though one is cheerful with the 140 Accubond. The 160 Partition is surprisingly friendly, but a long range bullet it isn't. I'd like to find one that would shoot the 270 AB LR, but no luck so far.
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Only one i know to comoare is the 150gr AB LR with .651BC.I have loaded a few of 150gr AB LR for my 270wsm and found there POI is the same at 100m as the 130 AB's. How ever my range only goes to 300m and where I hunt I probably would not take a shot any farther then that so I suppose they are wasted on me. I do not know anything about sheep hunting as that is the OP's stated use for this rifle. Are the shots taken at 'long distance ranges?
 
Not uncommon to have a 500 or 600 stride shot between you and the ram or billy of a lifetime. Be prepared for this comment to illicit a spring of the folks who've backpack hunted mountain game once or not at all jump out to say that's not hunting. They haven't been there, it's more and harder hunting than anything and truly fair chase in the wildest sense.

We strive to get clients to 300 and in, however we have had a 500 and 550 yard shot made by clients who were up to it. Dogleg is one of those guys, though he hunted Grizzly here and at much closer range, he knows his stuff and shoots 600+ yards weekly on his own range. He probably would outshoot me at 600 right now if my target was at 300.

To summarize, you don't plan on a 550 yard sheep or goat shot. But if on the last day and in a state of pure exhaustion you see a 12" billy at 589 yards (this is a real scenario that just happened to me and a client in September) it's sure nice to have the rifle, load, and shooter up to the job. Hope for 150 and plan for 500.

The mountains make range grow, and every client I get here from elsewhere thinks things are much closer than they are. All the yardsticks are gone, no trees, and with open air between you and a prominent animal on a slope you'd swear you're looking at 275 yards. And it's 475.
 
A 600 yard Billy.

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Ardent said:
Not uncommon to have a 500 or 600 stride shot between you and the ram or billy of a lifetime. Be prepared for this comment to illicit a spring of the folks who've backpack hunted mountain game once or not at all jump out to say that's not hunting. They haven't been there, it's more and harder hunting than anything and truly fair chase in the wildest sense.

We strive to get clients to 300 and in, however we have had a 500 and 550 yard shot made by clients who were up to it. Dogleg is one of those guys, though he hunted Grizzly here and at much closer range, he knows his stuff and shoots 600+ yards weekly on his own range. He probably would outshoot me at 600 right now if my target was at 300.

To summarize, you don't plan on a 550 yard sheep or goat shot. But if on the last day and in a state of pure exhaustion you see a 12" billy at 589 yards (this is a real scenario that just happened to me and a client in September) it's sure nice to have the rifle, load, and shooter up to the job. Hope for 150 and plan for 500.

The mountains make range grow, and every client I get here from elsewhere thinks things are much closer than they are. All the yardsticks are gone, no trees, and with open air between you and a prominent animal on a slope you'd swear you're looking at 275 yards. And it's 475.
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Nail on the head Angus.
 
chuck nelson said:
Ive shot Elk. Big elk at closer to 600 than 500 yds with a 270 and 130gr bullets. Some of these arguments are more paper than reality based.
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When comparing two cartridges that are separated by .007" of bullet diameter and 12 grains of case capacity it is perhaps not so astonishing that their similarities are many. Even less so that the areas of suitable application will overlap more than a little.

Having said that, if you are trying to pick between the two you have to focus on the differences. Some of those differences are going to be small, and not all of them are going to apply to everyone.
 
Ardent said:
I suggest we all go back to only discussing hunting, rifles, cartridges, and gear around an actual campfire and only whilst hunting. We'll consider admitting carrier pigeons for conversations between camps if reality levels are kept suitably high the first year.
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So people who hunt in climates where a campfire can't be started with a can of gas shouldn't discuss cartridges at all? Seems harsh. ;)
 
hoytcanon said:
Correct... "No soup for you!"
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I'm OK with blindly and obediently following the rules, just need to know what they are this week :).

On a related note, do you think waterproof pictures of a cheery blaze would sell well in BC? You could place it where you wished you had a fire, point a flashlight at it for brightness, and poke it with sticks and such. The reverse side could have a short summary of everything in the world, just in case the conversations around the fake fire got too heated. I can't believe Cabelas doesnt sell them.
 
Dogleg said:
I'm OK with blindly and obediently following the rules, just need to know what they are this week :).

On a related note, do you think waterproof pictures of a cheery blaze would sell well in BC? You could place it where you wished you had a fire, point a flashlight at it for brightness, and poke it with sticks and such. The reverse side could have a short summary of everything in the world, just in case the conversations around the fake fire got too heated. I can't believe Cabelas doesnt sell them.
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Apparently the reverse will just say; "Trump..."
 
So you guys spotted the issue with my proposition.

I'll invest in the cardboard fire cutout scheme as long as they're waterproof. Maybe one of those Carlton cards little noise makers when you unfold it with crackling fire sounds. Could sell hundreds of them locally, would be like selling mirrors in the new world a few hundred years ago, revolutionary.
 
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