Modern varmint vs bushmaster acr ?

Brian46 said:
ACR if you plan to convert calibers.

Solely based on what ATRS has posted on this forum how against they are of anyone modifying their product. If you were too ever need replacement parts in the future that are proprietary to the MV/MH, it is unlikely they will sell them to you with what has been said.

PS, I am going to do it anyways when I find a cheap used one
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From a liability perspective I wouldn't expect that they would recommend people start changing things. If something goes wrong the first thing the guy will say is "but Rick told me I could". Seeing how Rick has made it clear that he is not a fan of litigation I wouldn't expect him to say anything other than "don't touch it, send it back to us".

As far as the unwillingness to supply proprietary parts goes I can only recall that being said in regards to the part that helps to position the trigger pack. I may have missed something but afaik that 1 part is the only 1 part he has specifically stated that they will not sell to anyone. Seeing as there is a huge safety risk if someone doesn't reinstall it perfectly I don't blame him for that.

How much support does the ACR get from Bushmaster? I'd say ATRS wins in this department. Even if there is 1 little piece they won't sell us.

As far as modifications is concerned, I have already changed a few little things and will continue to do so if I get the itch to change or add something. That is part of the enjoyment of owning something like this. Or the ACR for that matter.

There is no reason for anyone to think they can't do anything to the MV. It's got a few little proprietary differences but in general it is pretty standard stuff.

I'm currently sourcing a 20" .204 ruger barrel for mine for no other reason than I want something different for zapping yotes. 223 is getting boring to me. Most every gun out there is in 223. I want mine to be different. Changes can be made to this gun easily enough. Standard AR barrel with nothing more needed than changing the location of the indexing pin.

If you have the know how (or the budget to pay someone with the know how) calibers that ATRS won't do can be done. No different than having to do it with the ACR.

I do things to mine with the full understanding that if I eff it up I don't expect ATRS to have to fix it for me.

ACR or MV, if you want to make them into something different there is no difference. You take on the responsibility of doing so.

I think they are both great platforms. Maybe one day I will get an ACR.
 
One of the positives for the ACR is its 90% Legos like an AR. And most AR parts fit and the ones that dont have aftermarket support. so factory support isnt needed what so ever.
 
DILLIGAF said:
One of the positives for the ACR is its 90% Legos like an AR. And most AR parts fit and the ones that dont have aftermarket support. so factory support isnt needed what so ever.
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The part I worry about a little and may eventually pick up a spare is the bolt, this is not an AR interchangeable part and can only be bought from Bushmaster. Looks the same but like an AR-180 the cam pin hole indexes differently.
 
Both the ACR and the MV each have some standard parts and some proprietary parts. When it comes to either or, it's six of one and half a dozen of the other. Trying to come to a conclusion as to which is better and why will never be accomplished. I think if someone were to toss the two names into a hat, pull one out and go with it they would be happy with which ever one they picked out.

Just because I do own a MV and don't own an ACR doesn't make me think the MV is magically better. I've used an ACR and thoroughly enjoyed it. They both have their strengths and weaknesses.

Which one is better? To each their own. Tough call.
 
Yeah MV has some pretty cool features :) specially the weight savings and accuracy.

I cant justify a 3rd 556 semi tho. And my 102 build just cost me 5k so im broke again for a while.. LoL

But if I ever get tha chance to shoot one ill jump on that opportunity
 
jiffx2781 said:
From a liability perspective I wouldn't expect that they would recommend people start changing things. If something goes wrong the first thing the guy will say is "but Rick told me I could". Seeing how Rick has made it clear that he is not a fan of litigation I wouldn't expect him to say anything other than "don't touch it, send it back to us".

As far as the unwillingness to supply proprietary parts goes I can only recall that being said in regards to the part that helps to position the trigger pack. I may have missed something but afaik that 1 part is the only 1 part he has specifically stated that they will not sell to anyone. Seeing as there is a huge safety risk if someone doesn't reinstall it perfectly I don't blame him for that.

How much support does the ACR get from Bushmaster? I'd say ATRS wins in this department. Even if there is 1 little piece they won't sell us.

As far as modifications is concerned, I have already changed a few little things and will continue to do so if I get the itch to change or add something. That is part of the enjoyment of owning something like this. Or the ACR for that matter.

There is no reason for anyone to think they can't do anything to the MV. It's got a few little proprietary differences but in general it is pretty standard stuff.

I'm currently sourcing a 20" .204 ruger barrel for mine for no other reason than I want something different for zapping yotes. 223 is getting boring to me. Most every gun out there is in 223. I want mine to be different. Changes can be made to this gun easily enough. Standard AR barrel with nothing more needed than changing the location of the indexing pin.

If you have the know how (or the budget to pay someone with the know how) calibers that ATRS won't do can be done. No different than having to do it with the ACR.

I do things to mine with the full understanding that if I eff it up I don't expect ATRS to have to fix it for me.

ACR or MV, if you want to make them into something different there is no difference. You take on the responsibility of doing so.

I think they are both great platforms. Maybe one day I will get an ACR.
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You seem to misunderstand my post, I don't expect atrs to fix something after it is modified.

Go back and read the posts on the topic, it has pretty much been said on here through the varying posts about taking apart various parts of the rifle or modifying it that atrs will wash their hands of you as a customer. Things like copyright issues, worry that the product line will be restricted, etc.

I can order any part for my ACR from Remington. ATRS will not sell every part or I would just order what I need instead of sourcing a used complete rifle for conversion
 
DILLIGAF said:
Yeah MV has some pretty cool features :) specially the weight savings and accuracy.

I cant justify a 3rd 556 semi tho. And my 102 build just cost me 5k so im broke again for a while.. LoL

But if I ever get tha chance to shoot one ill jump on that opportunity
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So much for the 102 being cheap
 
DILLIGAF said:
Yeah MV has some pretty cool features :) specially the weight savings and accuracy.

I cant justify a 3rd 556 semi tho. And my 102 build just cost me 5k so im broke again for a while.. LoL

But if I ever get tha chance to shoot one ill jump on that opportunity
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Wow, that's some expensive lipstick... ha ha ha
 
DILLIGAF said:
Its way past lipstick. I just kept the receiver set. I dont trust my face behind anything those monkeys make at NEA. Hahahhahaha
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You don't work for BCL do you? You really inspire confidence in their product. I was on the fence if the 102 was worth it but now I'm convinced. It's not :p
 
Brian46 said:
You seem to misunderstand my post, I don't expect atrs to fix something after it is modified.

Go back and read the posts on the topic, it has pretty much been said on here through the varying posts about taking apart various parts of the rifle or modifying it that atrs will wash their hands of you as a customer. Things like copyright issues, worry that the product line will be restricted, etc.

I can order any part for my ACR from Remington. ATRS will not sell every part or I would just order what I need instead of sourcing a used complete rifle for conversion
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I think you are misunderstanding my posts.
IF you choose to make modifications to any of our rifles you do so wholly at your own risk. There is 1 part we will not simply sell as a replacement part, it is the trigger anchor. The reason being if someone does not set up the trigger geometry correctly the gun can be dangerous or the lower irreparably damaged. I CANNOT STRESS ENOUGH, OUR SEMI AUTOS ARE NOT AR's DESPITE LOOKING VERY SIMILAR AND HAVING THE SAME OPERATING SYSTEM.

In our design we have purposefully put in features that allow us the capacity to state irrevocably that the rifle did not leave here capable of...
Specifically standard AR15 barrels, to try and prevent some yahoo from creating the possibility of a restricted version from being declared. Really we should not have to do this, but unfortunately there are too many clowns who want to mess with things they should leave alone.
Same thing for triggers. With modification an M16 fire control kit "could" be employed making the rifle F/A, however it would mean some machine work to both the upper and lower as well as drilling holes, all of when the crap hits the fan we have plausible deniability for.

As for washing our hands of a client, this is simply not the case at all. Our warranty does not, like almost every other warranty cover, stupid which is abundant, wilful abuse, or modifications we do not perform. Pretty much the same as what Toyota told me when I shoveled a super charged 480 CID Rodec engine into an SR5 pick up I owned when the truck was still on factory Toyota warranty.
 
cr5 said:
You don't work for BCL do you? You really inspire confidence in their product. I was on the fence if the 102 was worth it but now I'm convinced. It's not :p
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Sure it is,
$1700 for the upper/lower.
Another $2000 in high end parts. ( trigger group, CFW barrel,top end BCG ,etc)
And you got a true ,top end AR10.
 
Brianma65 said:
Sure it is,
$1700 for the upper/lower.
Another $2000 in high end parts. ( trigger group, CFW barrel,top end BCG ,etc)
And you got a true ,top end AR10.
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Lol, or you could just buy a Modern Hunter or Varmint and have a better rifle for around the same money.

That top end AR-10 still has NEA/BCL stamped on the side so it's never going to be top end anything in most people's eyes.
 
alberta tactical rifle said:
I think you are misunderstanding my posts.
IF you choose to make modifications to any of our rifles you do so wholly at your own risk. There is 1 part we will not simply sell as a replacement part, it is the trigger anchor. The reason being if someone does not set up the trigger geometry correctly the gun can be dangerous or the lower irreparably damaged. I CANNOT STRESS ENOUGH, OUR SEMI AUTOS ARE NOT AR's DESPITE LOOKING VERY SIMILAR AND HAVING THE SAME OPERATING SYSTEM.

In our design we have purposefully put in features that allow us the capacity to state irrevocably that the rifle did not leave here capable of...
Specifically standard AR15 barrels, to try and prevent some yahoo from creating the possibility of a restricted version from being declared. Really we should not have to do this, but unfortunately there are too many clowns who want to mess with things they should leave alone.
Same thing for triggers. With modification an M16 fire control kit "could" be employed making the rifle F/A, however it would mean some machine work to both the upper and lower as well as drilling holes, all of when the crap hits the fan we have plausible deniability for.

As for washing our hands of a client, this is simply not the case at all. Our warranty does not, like almost every other warranty cover, stupid which is abundant, wilful abuse, or modifications we do not perform. Pretty much the same as what Toyota told me when I shoveled a super charged 480 CID Rodec engine into an SR5 pick up I owned when the truck was still on factory Toyota warranty.
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What I wrote is exactly how what you have written in the past comes across.

If you are not against conversions, I would be happy to purchase a rifle minus all the specific 223/556 caliber parts if it is offered new. Otherwise I will continue to look privately
 
Brian46 said:
......I would be happy to purchase a rifle minus all the specific 223/556 caliber parts if it is offered new. Otherwise I will continue to look privately
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I don't think that will ever happen. Rick previously stated that ONLY complete and function tested rifles will be sold. Again I don't blame him for this.

If you're dead set on having a MV in a caliber of your choice a possibility would be for you to buy the more affordably priced "factory" version, toss the cheap barrel and have Herron Arms or someone else make you a barrel to you're caliber of choice. The "factory" version is cheaper than you will find a regular premium version for sale for any time soon.

Just a possibility for you.
 
cr5 said:
Lol, or you could just buy a Modern Hunter or Varmint and have a better rifle for around the same price
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I wounldnt go that far. The MH has had its share of issues as well. I rather build my own AR10 the way I want it. Unfortunately building a MH the way I want is way more money. Sure the basic MH wouldn't of been much more but then Id be stuck with a basic looking rig.

Im also still waiting on the IOP. The less money I give NEA the better. Specially since it dosent look like they will ever just sell the receiver set.
 
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