hometownhero
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Toon Town, Sk
You have your cake and eat it too.
I have a 7mm-08 that is pushing speeds that hodgdon says a 280 ai will get. Their data shows a 24" I have a 26". Accuracy is there as well as the speeds.
30-06s.... Love/Hate/Re-evaluate
- Thread starter WhelanLad
- Start date
You have your cake and eat it too.
I have a 7mm-08 that is pushing speeds that hodgdon says a 280 ai will get. Their data shows a 24" I have a 26". Accuracy is there as well as the speeds.
I like USSR Sargent Don.
It's folks like him, Shane and many others that push these old school cartrages close to the 300 Winchester Magnum specs.
https://forum.snipershide.com/forum...-remember-the-great-30-06-debate-10-years-ago
They took it to task in about 1992, here we are today 25 years later and many of these guys are still at it.
Enjoy all.
Don
It's folks like him, Shane and many others that push these old school cartrages close to the 300 Winchester Magnum specs.
https://forum.snipershide.com/forum...-remember-the-great-30-06-debate-10-years-ago
They took it to task in about 1992, here we are today 25 years later and many of these guys are still at it.
Enjoy all.
Don
hometownhero
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Toon Town, Sk
You can do great things with a long barrel and slow powders.
I would be very interested to see how that same load performs in a different gun. An extra 2" of barrel does not explain the FPS you seem to be getting, my guess is you just happen to have a particularly fast barrel...
I'm only up to Page 9! This is CRAZY!
I expected to get FLAMED for this thread hahaha!!!!
Ya'know , at the end of the Day .... my Current "Equal to 30-06" is a...... .303 British
Ruger #1...
this is why I cant bring myself to getting one.
looking forward to Reading more Replies tonight... A lot of good discussion, and some Elitism goin on too, but hey it wouldn't be Canadas best forum without it all goin on
WL
I expected to get FLAMED for this thread hahaha!!!!
Ya'know , at the end of the Day .... my Current "Equal to 30-06" is a...... .303 British
Ruger #1...this is why I cant bring myself to getting one.
looking forward to Reading more Replies tonight... A lot of good discussion, and some Elitism goin on too, but hey it wouldn't be Canadas best forum without it all goin on
WL
colonel3006
Regular
- Location
- Ayton,ontario
Lol. I expected this thread to get alot of comments. Your title couldn't have been better because it seems that most hunters/shooters either Love/Hate the 30-06. I personally love it but that's just my opinion. Any 30-06 debate always seems to open a big can of worms and I always enjoy reading everybody's comments and opinions.
Those of us from the Firearm arms world that have played with endless cartrages and cases know there are other options to select from.
Some bigger, fast, better. Others Small, fast, and better in their category.
The Ought-6, along with 5 or 10 cartrages that are some what close to its specs are ok.
As I mentioned,,, they aren't really the power house, nor are they the weakest link.
I for one did not jump into the 06 world with expectations of matching performance of the big dogs,,, but the above post shows that it can be done.
Yes, even I take advantage of this option in big game season because I can & do.
One might ask why, why the old plane, bland, boaring cartrage then.
It's referred to as options my friends.
On Day one I could step into the bush and kick up some dirt.
The next day after that a person might want to tame it down a bit for competition.
Oh,,, looks like the younger want to join in.
No problem.
They get to shoot the relaxing 110 or 125gr reduced pet loads,,, Federal makes them factory for Women and younger adults that choose to go harvest a deer or Varmints,,, they are very accurate and easy on the body.
Not all, but some of us choose this Ought-6 cartrage because it fits our shooting style the best, the majority of my home made loads are a fraction below spec.
Why, simple. "Less wear and tear over the long haul,,, but with the option that I can go to the race track to run with the big dogs on the weekends.
Then back to the norm threw the week.
Us FTR folks are running our 308's at max to get those bullets down there at 900m,,, its beyond me why we do this. But hey,,, they made the rules. Of coures there is the Open F,,, this is good as it allows for Wildcat and other options. The 338 stuff and larger needs range approval before going into competition.
Purhaps this 30/06 idea might work good for this stuff, I won't know till I get there at some point in time.
Most of us realize that we don't really need to push the Ought-6 that hard compared to the 308,,, its that fraction of a pigs hair less stress of CUP / PSI.
The less hot loads is less barrel burn.
Probably more wrong then right.
Oh well, no big deal,,, one thing about us middle of the road folks, we are relaxed, calm, well natured, humbled, and many other qualities since there is nothing to prove unless it is shooting vertical.
If we get it right,,, then we reap the rewards of the G word.
More to follow on a awesome thread and good times.
Western Canada Don
Some bigger, fast, better. Others Small, fast, and better in their category.
The Ought-6, along with 5 or 10 cartrages that are some what close to its specs are ok.
As I mentioned,,, they aren't really the power house, nor are they the weakest link.
I for one did not jump into the 06 world with expectations of matching performance of the big dogs,,, but the above post shows that it can be done.
Yes, even I take advantage of this option in big game season because I can & do.
One might ask why, why the old plane, bland, boaring cartrage then.
It's referred to as options my friends.
On Day one I could step into the bush and kick up some dirt.
The next day after that a person might want to tame it down a bit for competition.
Oh,,, looks like the younger want to join in.
No problem.
They get to shoot the relaxing 110 or 125gr reduced pet loads,,, Federal makes them factory for Women and younger adults that choose to go harvest a deer or Varmints,,, they are very accurate and easy on the body.
Not all, but some of us choose this Ought-6 cartrage because it fits our shooting style the best, the majority of my home made loads are a fraction below spec.
Why, simple. "Less wear and tear over the long haul,,, but with the option that I can go to the race track to run with the big dogs on the weekends.
Then back to the norm threw the week.
Us FTR folks are running our 308's at max to get those bullets down there at 900m,,, its beyond me why we do this. But hey,,, they made the rules. Of coures there is the Open F,,, this is good as it allows for Wildcat and other options. The 338 stuff and larger needs range approval before going into competition.
Purhaps this 30/06 idea might work good for this stuff, I won't know till I get there at some point in time.
Most of us realize that we don't really need to push the Ought-6 that hard compared to the 308,,, its that fraction of a pigs hair less stress of CUP / PSI.
The less hot loads is less barrel burn.
Probably more wrong then right.
Oh well, no big deal,,, one thing about us middle of the road folks, we are relaxed, calm, well natured, humbled, and many other qualities since there is nothing to prove unless it is shooting vertical.
If we get it right,,, then we reap the rewards of the G word.
More to follow on a awesome thread and good times.
Western Canada Don
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- Location
- In the shadows of the Rockies
Accuracy is more important than highest muzzle speed when developing loads. For example, I got superb tack-driving accuracy with Hornady 130gr SP bullets in my .300 WM at a lowly 3100 fps muzzle speed. Less than what a .30-06 can do.
Decided to stick with that load on a Bighorn Sheep hunt in spite of the low muzzle speed. More than sufficient power for taking my trophy Bighorn ram. 1 shot DRT at about 200 meters.
I just wasn't sure if trying to get muzzle speed closer to the 3500 fps maximum was worth it. But shooting and hunting is all fun and games any way you look at it. Cool value counts for something.
What's the use of having cake if you can't eat it; that's what I always say.
Two, four, seven and down to four from a high of six.
Now there's a common mistake. The short neck of the .300 Win is the product of moving the shoulder forward while leaving the bullet in the same place.That was to increase the case capacity, not reduce it. Besides, when the .300 is housed in a 3.600"+ mag box the intrusion argument goes away along with concerns of which bullets can be gripped by the short neck or will make the lands.
Those of us in the 30/06 world are lucky to have some oldtimers that restore some of these gems.
One of the fellows that stands out is Mr Ed Harris,,, many folks might remember him in his performance at Enemy At The Gate.
I've never meet him In person, but I've been blessed to chat with him on-line,,, Debonair and discreet he is.
And a collection of vintage firearms like no other.
Ed is a master reloader, one of his favorite cartrages he address if the 30/06.
If anyone ever decides to shoot lead bullets, Ed is your go to guy.
He takes old worn out burnt out rifle barrels and turns them into tack-drivers.
He slugs the Chambers and bores to find what spacing he needs.
Then he casts bullets to a small fraction larger to wedge fit them, he also plays with the gas checks.
Not to big,,, not to small.
His MRS allow him to use pistol or rifle powders of his choosing. He is very keen on pressures and this is important when working with vintage military surplus rifles in bolt action or semi auto.
Ed enjoys it all, from reloading to shooting,
Purhaps this is why the movie companies picked him to play the roles of sniper.
Not only can Ed play the part,,, he take this to challange if he wanted to.
Again, Ed is just one of our rock stars that supports our cause. I joined this league of banded brothers years ago,,, just happened to be that it took me some 35+++ years to find this out.
Like one of our brothers said in one of the above posts.
At least the Old School 30/06 has one thing that stands out... "Its long history that will be with us for years to come."
Always glad to share on good time
Don
One of the fellows that stands out is Mr Ed Harris,,, many folks might remember him in his performance at Enemy At The Gate.
I've never meet him In person, but I've been blessed to chat with him on-line,,, Debonair and discreet he is.
And a collection of vintage firearms like no other.
Ed is a master reloader, one of his favorite cartrages he address if the 30/06.
If anyone ever decides to shoot lead bullets, Ed is your go to guy.
He takes old worn out burnt out rifle barrels and turns them into tack-drivers.
He slugs the Chambers and bores to find what spacing he needs.
Then he casts bullets to a small fraction larger to wedge fit them, he also plays with the gas checks.
Not to big,,, not to small.
His MRS allow him to use pistol or rifle powders of his choosing. He is very keen on pressures and this is important when working with vintage military surplus rifles in bolt action or semi auto.
Ed enjoys it all, from reloading to shooting,
Purhaps this is why the movie companies picked him to play the roles of sniper.
Not only can Ed play the part,,, he take this to challange if he wanted to.
Again, Ed is just one of our rock stars that supports our cause. I joined this league of banded brothers years ago,,, just happened to be that it took me some 35+++ years to find this out.
Like one of our brothers said in one of the above posts.
At least the Old School 30/06 has one thing that stands out... "Its long history that will be with us for years to come."
Always glad to share on good time
Don
Several 06's have passed through my hands but I never felt the desire to use one. To me they are the mini-van ofthe rifle world. Do everthything fairly well but nothing really well. Maybe I'm afraid if I tried one some of my other rifles would be redundant.
Only the original Mauser cartridges have a longer history than the 30/06. Like those cartridges, it is so good it demonstrates that there has been little reason to develop any new cartridges over the last 100 years. There are, perhaps, some notable exceptions; like the .222 Remington and, at the opposite end of the spectrum, the 458 Winchester. Of course, like these old originals, with their military origins, later military cartridges have also been excellent, real-world, performers. All of these cartridges operate at velocities at which most bullets perform well. They shoot flat enough to be effective at practical game ranges (of course this may disqualify them in the minds of the long-range hot dogs) and are effective on all North American game as well as most game world wide.
Ever since the development of IMR 4350, these old line cartridges, if loaded to modern acceptable pressure levels, as they can be, can achieve pretty impressive velocity levels. The 30/06 will easily achieve 2750-2800 fps with 180's (from a 22-24 inch barrel), 2850+ with 165's, 3100 with 150's. For those who like heavy bullets, 220's can be pushed to 2550. The cartridge is shaped so that it feeds and extracts well. The long neck makes for versatility when it comes to loading bullets of various lengths. No reason not to like it.
I do not own a 30/06 hunting rifle but I do have one 30/06 target rifle and my favourite hunting rifle shoots 165's at 2850 just like a 30/06 (I just can't buy ammo). I think it's a good place to be.
Sometimes people appear to forget that the cartridge case is only two things; it is a container for the powder charge and it is a gasket. That's all. The 30/06 is a nicely proportioned container and an effective gasket. Like I said, no reason not to like it.
Ever since the development of IMR 4350, these old line cartridges, if loaded to modern acceptable pressure levels, as they can be, can achieve pretty impressive velocity levels. The 30/06 will easily achieve 2750-2800 fps with 180's (from a 22-24 inch barrel), 2850+ with 165's, 3100 with 150's. For those who like heavy bullets, 220's can be pushed to 2550. The cartridge is shaped so that it feeds and extracts well. The long neck makes for versatility when it comes to loading bullets of various lengths. No reason not to like it.
I do not own a 30/06 hunting rifle but I do have one 30/06 target rifle and my favourite hunting rifle shoots 165's at 2850 just like a 30/06 (I just can't buy ammo). I think it's a good place to be.
Sometimes people appear to forget that the cartridge case is only two things; it is a container for the powder charge and it is a gasket. That's all. The 30/06 is a nicely proportioned container and an effective gasket. Like I said, no reason not to like it.
30-30, 303 brit, 45-70.... The 30-06 has a long history, but its certainly not the top dog, nor runner up... And we've developed many cartridges to replace the 30-06, most common of which is the 308 lol
It would go pretty good. 3243 fps is the fastest load with a 130gr (not a tsx though) (and the 130 tsx in a 270 only goes 3144 by their numbers) on Hodgdon reloading, using 54.5gr of IMR4064. And I'm sure people can get it going faster than that...
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I've got nothing against the 30'06, lots of things to like about it.
However, to me it's kinda like a fat ugly chick. The only way I'd utilize it is if it were the only thing lying around during a Zombie invasion. Kinda like the .270
.308 is far ###ier to me. Compact but punchy enough
However, to me it's kinda like a fat ugly chick. The only way I'd utilize it is if it were the only thing lying around during a Zombie invasion.
Kinda like the .270 .308 is far ###ier to me. Compact but punchy enough
- Location
- In the shadows of the Rockies
An interesting article, provides some clarity perhaps on why the .30-06 isn't necessarily the be-all-and-end-all hunting round -
"...if the hunter were to only ever head or neck shoot animals,...a rifle loaded with 147 grain military ball ammunition at 2720 fps would cover most situations,...
...been used to kill large and heavy game via head or neck shots (destruction of the upper central nervous system)...
....30-06 to be the ultimate all around cartridge for game up to the size of the great bears...,to use any small bore on large heavy game requires calm and careful shot placement with an accurate rifle.
...heavy game hunting with military bolt action rifles loaded with military ammunition, many hunters were killed by their quarry after failing to destroy the central nervous system...
...small bores,...leave no room for shot placement error...moving up in bore size and increasing bullet weight, the hunter is able to obtain wider wounding and, providing a suitable projectile is chosen, deeper penetration. The wider the bullet, the wider the wound channel, the faster the bullet, the wider the wound channel."
https://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/Heavy+Game+Cartridge+Overview.html
-"...if the hunter were to only ever head or neck shoot animals,...a rifle loaded with 147 grain military ball ammunition at 2720 fps would cover most situations,...
...been used to kill large and heavy game via head or neck shots (destruction of the upper central nervous system)...
....30-06 to be the ultimate all around cartridge for game up to the size of the great bears...,to use any small bore on large heavy game requires calm and careful shot placement with an accurate rifle.
...heavy game hunting with military bolt action rifles loaded with military ammunition, many hunters were killed by their quarry after failing to destroy the central nervous system...
...small bores,...leave no room for shot placement error...moving up in bore size and increasing bullet weight, the hunter is able to obtain wider wounding and, providing a suitable projectile is chosen, deeper penetration. The wider the bullet, the wider the wound channel, the faster the bullet, the wider the wound channel."
https://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/Heavy+Game+Cartridge+Overview.html
Go fast and kill slow.
