Sako / M16 extractor on Rem 700 comprises strength?

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I just built up a new custom 700 and added a Tikka T3 extractor. Works amazing.

Question about the Sako & mini M16 extractor. I have read that adding these types of extractors weaken the bolt. Why is Remington now installing a Badger Ordnance M16 extractor on their custom Sheep rifles if there is a possibility of it being a problem? This is where I actually got the idea for a aftermarket extractor.

If you read and watch the video, they talk about how adding the M16 extractor is a superior upgrade over the Remington spring clip style. Remington Custom Shop and Remington as a company must not be concerned about compromising the 3 rings of steel theory. The M16 style also requires much much more material to be removed in both length and depth compared to a Sako Style?

Any opinions out there?

https://www.remington.com/custom-shop/blog
 
That opens up a can of worms. I'm surprised Remington CS did that to their bolt.
Forget the Sako extractor as the Mini-M16 style is pinned in and better retained should a catastrophic failure occur.
It does weaken the 3 rings of steel that Remington always did advertise. The other problem with a Sako extractor in a Rem 700 bolt is it ejects the empties high hitting the scope cap.

Being it's for a 6.5 Creedmoor staying with the OEM design was a better choice IMO.
 
EHG said:
That opens up a can of worms. I'm surprised Remington CS did that to their bolt.
Forget the Sako extractor as the Mini-M16 style is pinned in and better retained should a catastrophic failure occur.
It does weaken the 3 rings of steel that Remington always did advertise. The other problem with a Sako extractor in a Rem 700 bolt is it ejects the empties high hitting the scope cap.

Being it's for a 6.5 Creedmoor staying with the OEM design was a better choice IMO.
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They will build these guns in any short action caliber including WSM with this set up.
 
As long as the shooter never experiences a catastrophic case failure, there is no issue.
I have inspected a Model 700 .22-.250 which was fired with a steel rod in the barrel; the bullet stopped in the bore, the case head failed, and all pressure was released at the breech end. Apart from a really good scare, the shooter was unscathed. The 700's breeching system functioned exactly as designed.
If a shooter prefers an inferior breeching system, that is his decision. Lots do. Many very popular rifles will not protect a shooter the way that a 700/600/7 will.

It isn't an issue of compromising strength; it is compromising protection of the shooter in the event of a catastrophic case failure.
 
This thread and the other sheep rifle thread (Rem Ti build) have made me go and research just exactly how those breaches provide the added safety measure in the event of a catastrophic case failure.
Ignorance has been bliss when buying a new firearm, I just took the advertising of the safety feature as gospel and now have a better informed opinion on how those measures are put in place.
The internet can be informative and yet scary too.
Rob
 
Well catastrophic case failures are rare but I am a firm believer in the 3 rings of steel.

I have seen for my own eyes the results of catastrophic case failures in Remington 700's and a few other actions. The 700's were the only actions that were not destroyed and only one of the 700's required an extractor repair. The other 700's survived with no damage. That included a 7mm Rem Mag where the owner fired a .303 British cartridge in it (in the late 60's). The back of the case fire formed into the same shape as the 7mm Magnum case, belt and all... and the front of the case was not as long so it looked weird... the bullet exited the barrel. The case did not rupture due to the design of the 3 rings of steel. The barrel had to be removed to open the bolt... the fired case had to be pried out of the bolt face... only then did I realize what had happened as you could plainly read the head stamp - .303 British. When the barrel was reinstalled the headspace was still correct and the owner went on to use that rifle for many more years. Other makes of actions would have been totally destroyed.

In m opinion the Remington 700 original extractor system makes it the strongest safest 2 locking lug bolt action ever produced to this day. In over 50 years of gunsmithing I have seen many blown up rifles for a variety of reasons. I have never seen a blown up 700. I have corresponded about a couple of altered 700's where serioius injury occurred and with one resulting death from a Sako extractor through the brain. (A left hand bench shooter with a right hand action)
 
I was at a shoot several years ago where the sako extractor on a custom 700 left the rifle apparently with some velocity as I recall when there was an over pressure incident.
 
Dennis, given the size of the extractor, as well as the size of the hole that it would have to pass through, how would a large enough piece get to where it needed to go to cause a death? I understand that this info is from correspondence, but a left handed shooter on a right handed rifle, would have been on which side? The extractor side, or opposite one?
Also, T3's use a very similar set up, without a recessed breech, and yet it doesn't seem to be a problem?

Case rupture itself, should really be a non issue in a properly set up rifle, and should not cause excessive pressure? Bore obstruction, or other factors tend to be far worse, and obviously can lead to things coming undone.

Thanks!

R.
 
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The Sako style or M-16 style extractor is installed just above the right hand locking lug. When the bolt is closed, the extractor is exposed to the right hand lug way back through the receiver ring. Nothing between it and the shooter. A right hander shooting a right hand rifle might get sprayed with high speed particles and debris. The left hander shooting the right hand rifle took the pieces in the forehead.

How many shooters have ever witnessed or experienced a catastrophic case failure - one where the solid head fails, not a case separation? Its bad.
If it happens, an unaltered 600/7/700 is the best readily available bolt action rifle to be shooting. The Remington Breeching system works. There are numerous popular rifles that handle the situation poorly. Folks shoot them. Disaster seldom happens.
 
HeadDamage said:
I was at a shoot several years ago where the sako extractor on a custom 700 left the rifle apparently with some velocity as I recall when there was an over pressure incident.
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How could it get out of where it's supposed to be, in one piece? I'm really trying to understand this?
Are there any links to pictures, or anything that could support this? An overpressure incident wouldn't put enough energy there to cause this? A bore would have to be plugged, or some significant other failure would have to had taken place?

R.
 
I have the "tubbs" rem 700 sako extractor. Tried 3 gun smiths in my area and none wanted the work. Apparently a lot more involved than putting new stocks on sks' or putting a scope on...
 
Apart from some careful machining, using specific tools, there is a liability issue.
The 'smith is compromising the breeching system built into the rifle by the manufacturer. If there is a failure, it isn't Remington who is going to get to carry the can.
 
tiriaq said:
Apart from some careful machining, using specific tools, there is a liability issue.
The 'smith is compromising the breeching system built into the rifle by the manufacturer. If there is a failure, it isn't Remington who is going to get to carry the can.
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If there is a failure, there is a huge chance it wouldn't have to do with breeching system, but rather with how the failure occurred in the first place? Which would be ammunition or operator?

R.
 
If there is a catastrophic case failure, alterations to the breeching will make the situation worse.
 
Not the cause - that would be something else - but the modifications contribute to the severity of the results, whoever altered the design could be liable.
 
Rman said:
Absolutely! But would be very unlikely that alterations or original manufacturer would be the cause, or even be able to be sued.

R.
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The person who altered the extractor system should be liable. Altering the safest system to much less... the original system so hard to blow up to a system funneling the blow up backwards... It's just a lawsuit waiting to happen.

Many smiths will not do the alteration and usually explain why they don't.
 
Now Remington is doing just that! Altering their own design that they so proudly advertised for years. This could in theory set themselves up for liability if something were to happen. I have no problem doing this to my own rifle as I am aware of the risk. It would be my fault. I recently added a T3 extractor to my custom build after seeing Remington Custom Shop bastardizing their own bolts.

Very interesting to say the least.
 
RangerPark said:
The Badger Ordnance extractor used by Remington is twice the length of a typical Sako style extractor. Maybe the determined this extra long design to be adequately safe?
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I wonder about that too, but alot more material is removed in both length and depth to install an M16 style. I would think regardless of strength, the cut channel in either design and blow back particles would be the bigger issue?
 
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