BC Grizzly Hunts over except for the First Nation people!

bearkilr said:
Yes, the eco weenies are fine with FN hunting because they perceive it as traditional and necessary. And if you think FN are on your side, you have your head up your ass. No offence. :)
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They are fine with it because it serves their purpose, which is getting FN on their side. If FN grizzly bear hunting becomes well publicized and prevelent, they will try to shut that down too.
 
muledeercrazy2 said:
As much as many non-native hunters may have less liberal views on what "equality" is and what the path forward should look like, it's amazing that with such similar values we can't agree on many issues, and that first nations would align themselves with anti-hunters who are lucky to leave the city once a year, or think whistler village is wilderness.
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Time to change that. We have many similar interests, best to work together for common good.

One thing for sure, getting FN on board is important. There are plenty of FN hunters and outfitters that want to hunt grizzly. I don't see those FN outfitters wanting to stop bringing in grizzly hunters. Not all FN in BC are aligned with the NDP decision to stop grizz hunting.
 
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GMC403 said:
I know FN are the topic of this thread, but IMO this Grizzly ban will be looked back on as the first ripple in the pond.

Once a movement like this gets started, the antis & snowflakes feel empowered in their “rights”. The next steps will be for them to argue that they have the right to ban hunting just as much as hunters have the right to hunt.

All it would take is a majority vote, or a continued limp wristed government.

Just my 2c
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I think you are correct. Stopping the grizz hunt is the tip of the spear.
 
Gatehouse said:
We all have to get past the FN/non FN thing. We are all in this together. Environmentalists use FN to bolster their cause, they keep getting used because they have such clout.

The Eco-weenies don't want FN to hunt either, but they know this has to be done in increments. Get FN on their side to stop "trophy hunting" is the first step. Next step "well, FN doesn't really need to hunt grizzy either"

We are all in this together, and the sooner we and FN hunters figure this out, the better.
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I totally agree.

Antis reading this right now are laughing their butts off.

You can't fight back unless you have a cohesive message: The science does not support a Grizzly Ban as the huntng of Grizzlies is something done sustainably for generations both inside FN lands and outside under oversite by there respective governments... period.

Hunters complaining about FN traditional rights are helping the antis frame it outside of the science and the tradition of a respectful hunt. Like oil companies do, if hunters can find stakeholders within FN communities to align interests with who knows what could be done.
 
gorby said:
Hunters complaining about FN traditional rights are helping the antis frame it outside of the science and the tradition of a respectful hunt.
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Hunters don't complain about "traditional rights," hunters complain about abuse, over-harvest, mismanagement or no management, gestational harvest, selling of game meat for profit etc.... and those concerns are rooted in "science" not in opposition to it. The common ground for all parties should be "sustainability."
 
I'm really pissed off that they shut down the Gizzly bear hunt.
I tought that Canada was a free country and not to discriminate against anybody.
If your are white you can't hunt.
If you are native you can hunt, [THIS IS BULL ----].
If they really cared about the bears they would shut it down for everybody.
Where I live natives are allowed to hunt Moose year round.
Hunt all night, with no limits, shoot in the middle of the road, SHOOT THEM OUT OF MOTORIZED BOATS ETC.ETC.
I'm 71 years old and I will probabaly never get another moose tag.
Maybe it is time that us old guys practice , [SHOOT AND RELEASE], IF YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN.
For the 1st time since I was 17, I never bought a moose tag, last fall.
I will not buy a tag when you can only hunt for 5 days.
I will do like everybody else [buy my moose from the Indians].
I did over 4000 kilometers hunting grouse in the Timmins area and I did not see one fresh moose track or a Moose.
SOMEBODY IS KILLING TOO MANY MOOSE.
MAYBE IT IS TIME TO DISBAND THE MNR'S OFFICE.
THEY ARE OVERPAID AND DO NOTHING TO HELP THE MOOSE POPULATION.
One MNR biologist was in the bush with 3 students counting Blueberries.
When I asked what he was doing he laughed and said he was counting berries per square meter to find out about Bear fodder!!!!!
I FEEL THAT THEY ARE A BUNCH OF INCOMPETENTS, AND NINCOMPOOPS.
The last Moose I shot was in 2011, it was full of parasites.
I was laughed at and they refused to give me another tag.
They said it was good to eat.
I invited them to my place to eat some, nobody came.
NEMO ME IMPUNE LACCESSIT
 
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hoytcanon said:
Hunters don't complain about "traditional rights," hunters complain about abuse, over-harvest, mismanagement or no management, gestational harvest, selling of game meat for profit etc.... and those concerns are rooted in "science" not in opposition to it. The common ground for all parties should be "sustainability."
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Some hunters do stick to the facts, but if you reread this thread or any other discussing FN hunting rights it is full of talk making generalizations about FN communities that would make a whopper of a headline and alienate many who are at all empathetic to FN communities.
 
I think this one can be fought in court, as when it comes to preservation of a species , that over rules all traditional hunting rights. At least that is how I read it. So if the government of BC is actually saying the species is in jeopardy there should be no hunting allowed by anyone... but unlikely they can prove they are in serious jeopardy.
This is not really about discrimination or first nation hunting rights... lets not allow the government to divide us, this is about holding the government accountable, and providing data (proof)before changes are made. Managing wildlife is like managing anything else, you can't manage something well without information.. and managing something based of emotion or public sentiment is dangerous and shallow thinking.

let the court challenges begin
 
My take, I hunted then for a living until last month’s announcement,

-The number of Grizzlies isn’t going to change. One of the principal arguments in favour of the hunt is cub survival as boars are harvested, and that there are more bears as a result of the hunt. This cub predation is true and have seen it myself, but I suspect the end result will be a wash in the short term and a general decline long term due to habitat and food source destruction.

-Grizzlies aren’t going to be any more aggressive, a dead bear learns nothing. Will be the same.

-No catastrophic changes except we’ve lost a hunt and component of a remote industry that only needs an intact ecosystem to survive.

-Raincoast and their competitors and allies on the eco side are incredibly effective and well managed, and branded. Hunting needs to move out of the dark ages and shake the mentality of “If you don’t like hunting #%*+ off I do.” The stiff lipped mantra doesn’t work, we need engagement and rebranding that’s more in step with modern times and who we are.

-If hunting is for and principally represented by 40-80 year old caucasian males we’re done. That hasn’t been the most successful demographic for anything except CEOs and presidents.

-Bring in kids, women, minorities, and get back to hunting being about the adventure, journey, and the camp life not the under armour and the inches of horn, antler, or skin alone.

-Realize nature appreciation comes in many forms and hunters don’t engage in the only real form of it. Hikers, eco tourists, anglers are all out there for the same reason just a different method, and many eco folks and hikers push harder, go deeper, and are more legitimate adventurers than a road hunter, or a good hunter in their tree stand. Respect needs to start flowing both ways and we have to begin the cycle.

-Get on social media and instead of waving it defiantly in people’s faces project it respectfully and show the back story not just the kill.
 
Ardent said:
My take, I hunted then for a living until last month’s announcement,

-The number of Grizzlies isn’t going to change. One of the principal arguments in favour of the hunt is cub survival as boars are harvested, and that there are more bears as a result of the hunt. This cub predation is true and have seen it myself, but I suspect the end result will be a wash in the short term and a general decline long term due to habitat and food source destruction.

-Grizzlies aren’t going to be any more aggressive, a dead bear learns nothing. Will be the same.

-No catastrophic changes except we’ve lost a hunt and component of a remote industry that only needs an intact ecosystem to survive.

-Raincoast and their competitors and allies on the eco side are incredibly effective and well managed, and branded. Hunting needs to move out of the dark ages and shake the mentality of “If you don’t like hunting #%*+ off I do.” The stiff lipped mantra doesn’t work, we need engagement and rebranding that’s more in step with modern times and who we are.

-If hunting is for and principally represented by 40-80 year old caucasian males we’re done. That hasn’t been the most successful demographic for anything except CEOs and presidents.

-Bring in kids, women, minorities, and get back to hunting being about the adventure, journey, and the camp life not the under armour and the inches of horn, antler, or skin alone.

-Realize nature appreciation comes in many forms and hunters don’t engage in the only real form of it. Hikers, eco tourists, anglers are all out there for the same reason just a different method, and many eco folks and hikers push harder, go deeper, and are more legitimate adventurers than a road hunter, or a good hunter in their tree stand. Respect needs to start flowing both ways and we have to begin the cycle.

-Get on social media and instead of waving it defiantly in people’s faces project it respectfully and show the back story not just the kill.
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Some excellent points.
 
Ardent said:
My take, I hunted then for a living until last month’s announcement,

-The number of Grizzlies isn’t going to change. One of the principal arguments in favour of the hunt is cub survival as boars are harvested, and that there are more bears as a result of the hunt. This cub predation is true and have seen it myself, but I suspect the end result will be a wash in the short term and a general decline long term due to habitat and food source destruction.

-Grizzlies aren’t going to be any more aggressive, a dead bear learns nothing. Will be the same.

-No catastrophic changes except we’ve lost a hunt and component of a remote industry that only needs an intact ecosystem to survive.

-Raincoast and their competitors and allies on the eco side are incredibly effective and well managed, and branded. Hunting needs to move out of the dark ages and shake the mentality of “If you don’t like hunting #%*+ off I do.” The stiff lipped mantra doesn’t work, we need engagement and rebranding that’s more in step with modern times and who we are.

-If hunting is for and principally represented by 40-80 year old caucasian males we’re done. That hasn’t been the most successful demographic for anything except CEOs and presidents.

-Bring in kids, women, minorities, and get back to hunting being about the adventure, journey, and the camp life not the under armour and the inches of horn, antler, or skin alone.

-Realize nature appreciation comes in many forms and hunters don’t engage in the only real form of it. Hikers, eco tourists, anglers are all out there for the same reason just a different method, and many eco folks and hikers push harder, go deeper, and are more legitimate adventurers than a road hunter, or a good hunter in their tree stand. Respect needs to start flowing both ways and we have to begin the cycle.

-Get on social media and instead of waving it defiantly in people’s faces project it respectfully and show the back story not just the kill.
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As someone new to hunting who is surrounded by friends and family who are mostly not hunters, these comments seem right on point.

This is the kind of respectful, strategic leadership in the hunting community I can get behind as a newbie.
 
grit said:
I think this one can be fought in court, as when it comes to preservation of a species , that over rules all traditional hunting rights. At least that is how I read it. So if the government of BC is actually saying the species is in jeopardy there should be no hunting allowed by anyone... but unlikely they can prove they are in serious jeopardy.
This is not really about discrimination or first nation hunting rights... lets not allow the government to divide us, this is about holding the government accountable, and providing data (proof)before changes are made. Managing wildlife is like managing anything else, you can't manage something well without information.. and managing something based of emotion or public sentiment is dangerous and shallow thinking.

let the court challenges begin
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I don't think the bc ruling has anything to do with preservation of the species. Grizzly hunters in bc weren't obligated to take any part of the animal after they killed it. A lot of people frowned upon this and that's why it's shut down. If it were a meat hunt like almost every other species it would still be going. It appears that hunters don't really affect the numbers of grizzly populations in bc and most screaming for science based decision making. The only science that I've seen brought to the table shows that the hunt is sustainable, but that's a pretty wobbly leg to stand on. I think we all know the Ndp don't really care about jobs, growth and budget so the industry behind it can suffer and nobody cares. There wasn't a plan to re-train people affected by this decision and it happened quickly. I thought the hunt would continue as a meat hunt like everything else, but I guess the extremism is what happens when the ndp are having things forced on them by the Green Party.
 
You had to take the skin and until December there was a meat only hunt outlined, then they closed everything. It wouldn’t have mattered if meat had to be taken, though none of us opposed that, their aim was to stop Grizzlies being hunted. They’ve succeeded. You can’t justify a Grizzly hunt to the eco side with meat; they’ll say hunt deer.
 
i have to disagree on one thing with you Angus. of course a dead bear will not learn how dangerous can be a meeting with humane it is obvious but the smell associated to a dead bear carcass and the scent we are leaving is an indicator of avoiding human encounter.

in the yukon i ve seen grizzly bears smelling us and running away very fast ...

in any places in Europe where they reduced the hunt like in Slovenija and Romania the attacks and predatory issues increased less than 5 years after the reducing or stop of hunting.

i wish im wrong but there is a slim chance for it.
 
colombe said:
I'm really pissed off that they shut down the Gizzly bear hunt.
I tought that Canada was a free country and not to discriminate against anybody.
If your are white you can't hunt.
If you are native you can hunt, [THIS IS BULL ----].
If they really cared about the bears they would shut it down for everybody.
Where I live natives are allowed to hunt Moose year round.
Hunt all night, with no limits, shoot in the middle of the road, SHOOT THEM OUT OF MOTORIZED BOATS ETC.ETC.
I'm 71 years old and I will probabaly never get another moose tag.
Maybe it is time that us old guys practice , [SHOOT AND RELEASE], IF YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN.
For the 1st time since I was 17, I never bought a moose tag, last fall.
I will not buy a tag when you can only hunt for 5 days.
I will do like everybody else [buy my moose from the Indians].
I did over 4000 kilometers hunting grouse in the Timmins area and I did not see one fresh moose track or a Moose.
SOMEBODY IS KILLING TOO MANY MOOSE.
MAYBE IT IS TIME TO DISBAND THE MNR'S OFFICE.
THEY ARE OVERPAID AND DO NOTHING TO HELP THE MOOS POPULATION.
One MNR biologist was in the bush with 3 students counting Blueberries.
When I asked what he was doing he laughed and said he was counting berries per square meter to find out about Bear fodder!!!!!
I FEEL THAT THEY ARE A BUNCH OF INCOMPETENTS, AND NINCOMPOOPS.
The last Moose I shot was in 2011, it was full of parasites.
I was laughed at and they refused to give me another tag.
They said it was good to eat.
I invited them to my place to eat some, nobody came.
NEMO ME IMPUNE LACCESSIT
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*******************************Good post ,sir. 13th./42 reg. Black Watch. ( spelling is = LACESSIT)
 
Gatehouse said:
Food for thought...

https://www.nationalobserver.com/2018/01/26/analysis/who-killed-grizzly-hunt-infographic
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Sickening to read that.

Like the RCMP, Natives in Canada make up their own laws. From the article:

"AUGUST. Coastal First Nations declare trophy hunting illegal in the Great Bear Rainforest under Indigenous law. Signs put up across the province and YVR South Terminal read: "Trophy Hunting is Closed in the Great Bear Rainforest. Respect our Traditional Laws.""

I didn't know a group of people can just declare things illegal.
 
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