83 is a bit early. Early 90's IMO is when one had to start watching some models. Honestly the first runs of even the express were zero issue guns the ones prior to the plastic triggers
Cheers
Remington wingmaster of yester year better quality than today's .
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83 is a bit early. Early 90's IMO is when one had to start watching some models. Honestly the first runs of even the express were zero issue guns the ones prior to the plastic triggers
Cheers
Exactly!
In may cases yes but not all thus I don't agree with that blanket statement. Today you get what you pay for that is the difference
Example
I have a vintage batch of Ithaca model 37 pumps love them all BUT. The new modern ithaca 37 pumps I bought since are expensive for sure but actually better made than the old ones when you compare side by side plus they are factory fitted with choke tubes
One cannot compare today's computerized manufacturing process(s) with what was done 50 years ago in tolerances alone and it shows in these
Cheers
LOL why did I know it was a model 12.
Yes sir must be why the 870 put your model 12 out of production
I have one 42 and a two model 12's ( 16ga & 28ga ) left in my herd also but only because of what current value these particular gauges have plus they were my grandfathers skeet guns and I am no spring chicken . They are a gun of the past and the EE here shows that the last number of years as values continue to drop and drop
By the way who fixes model 12's now when somethings goes wrong, how about even getting the sleeve adjusted or why the firing pin protrudes.
Try asking that one with a gunsmith today and watch the blank look I will not even mention what some call timingThe old 870 like it or not lives on since introduced in 1950 and will keep banging shells with new owners long after we are dead and all the model 12's are rebar .
870 parts are everywhere. Easy to work on etc not so on the model 12
Cheers
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the spank
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I haven’t seen an 870 at a registered trap shoot since 1985/86? I know a fellow who has shot the same wingmaster at skeet since I met him in 1982 and still does to this day. It’s the only target gun he has ever owned, a TC model with two barrels, a 26” SK and 30”F but I don’t think he has shot more than a flat a year through it since he bought it. So in 35 years thats only 35 flats. Lol
The question is how many were on the trap fields in the 60's,70's and 80's. My tc trap has a ton more that 30 flats through it and is like new.
I'm sorry but I have to laugh a wingmaster receiver split. Not bad out of maybe 14 million of them
Very common failure, NOT
Still see 870's at local trap fields not so for model 12
Cheers
the spank
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LOL why did I know it was a model 12.
Yes sir must be why the 870 put your model 12 out of production
I have one 42 and a two model 12's ( 16ga & 28ga ) left in my herd also but only because of what current value these particular gauges have plus they were my grandfathers and I am no spring chicken . They are a gun of the past and the EE here shows that the last number of years as values continue to drop and drop
By the way who fixes model 12's now when somethings goes wrong, how about even getting the sleeve adjusted or why the firing pin protrudes.
The old 870 like it or not lives on since introduced in 1950 and will keep banging shells with new owners long after we are dead and all the model 12's are rebar .
870 parts are everywhere. Easy to work on etc not so on the model 12
Cheers
The only reason the 870 put the model 12 out of production was production costs. Forged receivers, stamped sheet metal parts, pressed checkering and mahogany stocks are much cheaper to produce than milled receivers and trigger assemblies and hand cut checkered walnut. Funny it took all of 4 seasons for my 870 to fail in the field(broken firing pin) but my model 12 was 73 years old with tens of thousands of rounds through it before it broke a firing pin and 10 years after I replaced the pin and god knows how many more rounds it was still going strong. I’ve never had good luck with Remington pumps and autos so have steered clear of them for more than two and a half decades now.
Doesn't matter why. It canned the old model 12
as it did the model 31 which I still have and loveNot saying the model 12 was not a good gun just it's time is long gone. Break one today and see who can fix it for you that alone kills it
Cheers
LOL why did I know it was a model 12.
Yes sir must be why the 870 put your model 12 out of production
I have one 42 and a two model 12's ( 16ga & 28ga ) left in my herd also but only because of what current value these particular gauges have plus they were my grandfathers skeet guns and I am no spring chicken . They are a gun of the past and the EE here shows that the last number of years as values continue to drop and drop
By the way who fixes model 12's now when somethings goes wrong, how about even getting the sleeve adjusted or why the firing pin protrudes.
The old 870 like it or not lives on since introduced in 1950 and will keep banging shells with new owners long after we are dead and all the model 12's are rebar .
870 parts are everywhere. Easy to work on etc not so on the model 12
Cheers
I don’t consider my self an expert on pump guns maybe you are an expert?
As far as gunsmiths go access is available with planing.
No I am not an expert just a guy that worked in my dad's gun shop in the 60's and 70's and got to work on and shoot a lot of pumps and know in 2018 how limited model 12 are from getting them worked on to parts at least in canada
Still have more vintage pumps in the herd than most in many makes and models model 12 , 870 and 31's being three of them
Cheers
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the spank
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In the late 80’s or early 90’s there was a very large class action suit against Remington for their 870 Rem Choke barrels bursting. I had a buddy who had one bulge behind the choke and wedged the choke in solid. He was shooting Winchester factory 1 1/4 oz Super X loads. I guess the good part was Remington did send him a new barrel after returning the bulged barrel. I also watched a fellow blow an 870 to pieces on the trap field in 1985. Tore his arm up pretty good and sent a 12” chunk of barrel sideways across the field fortunately missing the others on the squad. His gun was destroyed. Stock shattered, receiver split and barrel looking like something from a looney tunes daffy duck elmer fudd cartoon.
?? I said a ton more than 30. I don't have to impress anyone those days are long gone
In those days I was shooting 25,000 rounds a year but mainly skeet in 4 gauges and yes in the 60's all with 870's which I still own two full sets. Trap was just for off days since back then we figured it was too easy LOL
Cheers
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85 would have been a blockage probably wad unless he had the tubes fitted by a smith since remington didnot start supplying factory choke tubes until 87
I remember crocked chokes in late 90's which may have something to do with the other case you mention
I don't know
Just know my old ones are all fine
Been fun . Thanks for helping me pass the time.
Mama's supper has to be madeI think steel shot and lack of 3" models helped kill the model 12 also
Cheers
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the spank
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85 would have been a blockage probably wad unless he had the tubes fitted by a smith since remington didnot start supplying factory choke tubes until 87
I remember crocked chokes in late 90's which may have something to do with the other case you mention
I don't know
Just know my old ones are all fine
Been fun . Thanks for helping me pass the time.
I think steel shot and lack of 3" models helped kill the model 12 also
Cheers
You misread. It was two separate individuals and guns.
As I said I no longer own an 870, heck I don’t even have a model 12 any longer or any pumps or autos of any kind for that matter. I sold everything off in the past two years keeping just a couple I use and thats it. I have 4 shotguns left and all are break action, two of which are trap guns and the others field guns. Been a fun stroll down lightning rod lane though
, thanks for that! 
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You misread. It was two separate individuals and guns.
As I said I no longer own an 870, heck I don’t even have a model 12 any longer or any pumps or autos of any kind for that matter. I sold everything off in the past two years keeping just a couple I use and thats it. I have 4 shotguns left and all are break action, two of which are trap guns and the others field guns. Been a fun stroll down lightning rod lane though
?? No the 85 and the other
Cheers
