Wolverine's WK180-C

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Every organization can have a bad apple or two, but you make a grave error if you judge them all by that. Think yourself lucky you live in Canada and we are policed by the RCMP even if our pm ( Lower case deliberately) values terroist higher than our veterans.

that last point alone should be enough for canadians to vote out the liberals next time around
 
So, I have a couple questions since I think you guys just managed to make me switch from Macdef (at least from another upper) to this one! Because the price is just too damn good to pass up. My questions are mostly concerning weight. I know that the full rifle is 7.25 lbs, but:

- How much does the stock barrel weigh? I just got my SJ Hardware dimpled barrel in for my SLR and I think I'll transfer it to this one instead since it has a mid-length gas system and is 18.6". Just want to make sure that it's not pointless to do so if the barrel weights aren't too different.
- How much does the stock handguard weigh? I was hoping to change it out to a really lightweight option since a lot of standard handguards just add too much weight to the rifle. And again, if it's like under 10 oz with the barrel nut, changing it out for something else would be silly.
- What's the length when measuring from the end of the handguard to the tip of the piston gas regulator? I was hoping to install a lightweight handguard that just allows for enough space to play with the gas system without removing the handguard if you want to maintain it.

Man I can't wait to see this show up at my house in a few months!

I can't give you exact weights as the final barrel for production rifles has not been turned yet. From what I read here we need to keep her as light as we can afford and still keep in budget.

I can't give you length as the mid length gas system is still on the drawing board.

We have only today finalized our hand guard design, Kodiak will be making it in house, she will be unique. Featuring a 1913 rail on top an M-Lok at 3, 6, and 9 o'clock, lightweight is a priority. I hope you will not feel the need to replace her when you handle her.

Our target weight is 7lbs but we still need sub 2 MOA, and keep below $1,000.00, I have set price as priority #1, time will tell.
 
Gas system: Short stroke gas piston utilising a one piece gas piston and piston cup. We now use a one piece gas piston similar to the FN FAL and the gas cylinder plug is threaded in like the M14 gas cylinder plug. Our pre-production prototype features a short piston, we are looking at moving to a medium length as I think it presents a more balanced look for production guns.

I seem to like the concept of moving piston to medium length, not just for balance but also for aesthetics as well.

Thank you Wolverine for coming up with this!
 
If a gun isn't prohib, then it is either R or NR.

If it isn't prescribed as restricted... then it is NR.

That simple.

Expanded...

Is it a named prohib, full auto, converted auto or handgun with barrel 105mm or less or a handgun in 25acp/32acp? If yes, prohib. No...

Is it an named restricted or other handgun? Yes = restricted. No....

Is it restricted due to features like overall length or barrel length? Yes... restricted. No....

Then it is NR.

Is it a converted auto cz858 or swiss arms? Yes.

Is it named in the oic as R or NR? Yes. Then NR or R. No, prohib.

Didn't you say the same thing about the RPD ?
 
Wow you have lot's of questions, let me work through them

Firstly we explained delivery and FRT in detail in the opening press release, we are keeping this as transparent as possible.
You can have a full refund at any time , less a $50 admin charge.
If you get stopped on the highway with a WK180-C, you have a firearm that is not prohibited, is semi auto only with a barrel over 18.5 inches and a OA length over 26 inches. I believe any LE Officer can seize any firearm and send it to their experts for identification, checking barrel length etc. How many LE Officers know how to correctly measure a barrel? I saw a member even ask that question on CGN today.What use would an FRT be? you may have cut the barrel back so she would be prohibited. Everyone needs to understand that the FRT is not Law.
No the RCMP can not make a stink and make it prohibited or restricted out of spite, the RCMP is an honourable Force, this is not Nazi Germany.
The CZ 858 "Debacle" was totally different to this case.
As I said you are welcome to a refund.

Please feel free to ask any more questions if things are still unclear.

Agree on all fronts re: the Firearms Act, the FRT and RCMP's involvement in interpretation of the law into the FRT and it's subsequent implementation.

To summarize Wolverine's position,

1. This rifle's upper and lower receiver is a reproduction of the AR180B and it meets the OAL and Barrel Length restrictions for NR in the Firearm Act and hence, per Wolverine, an FRT and a formal classification by the RCMP is not required.
2. Wolverine,using their best understanding of the Firearms Act, specifically the definition of Non Restricted and Restricted Firearms, and using precedence of the RCMP awarding NR classification for AR180B derived designs in the recent past, have unilaterally classified this rifle as "Non Restricted".

I foresee four problems with this current situation,

1. There is no precedence for Wolverine to be declared an "expert" in the classification of firearms per the Forearms Act or the Canadian Firearms Program. Rather, the RCMP is the sole responsible party (I believe they frame it as administrator) for classification, licensing, registration (etc etc) per the Act.
2. There is no independent verification or corroboration by an entity recognized by the Firearms Act - that the upper and lower receiver set is an EXACT copy and not a LIKENESS of the AR180B.
3. There is a likelihood that the RCMP may come to a different conclusion on the classification of the rifle as the gas system is NOT THE SAME as an AR180B and hence it is NOT the same gun and hence the precedence of awarding NR classification cannot be assumed. The RCMP may find the operation like <insert prohibited/ restricted gun name here> and decide NOT to give it a NR classification. Precedence is not guaranteed, and the RCMP may wish to apply it differently in this case. The RCMP have a very strong enabler in the act through one the definitions of a Restricted firearm: "a firearm of any other kind that is prescribed to be a restricted firearm".

Yes, I agree that the Laws are imperfect, but we have to abide by them. So, I believe that IF one is stopped and questioned with this rifle, be prepared for an impounded rifle, potential charges, and a certain legal fight as it would come down to Wolverine's interpretation of the law vs. the RCMPs. Wolverine's position may (perhaps should ?) win based on the way the Act defines NR but it will be messy, protracted and potentially disastrous. I believe we are in uncharted waters here.

Are there any rifles/ pistols in Canada that are currently sold without an FRT ? I guess I am looking for precedence for "sale and possession of firearms without an FRT" as that is the only other strong argument that can be made to support Wolverine's interpretation and unilateral classification - if challenged.
 
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You mentioned that it can take AR handguards, but which ones? Wouldn’t the piston affect which handguards could work?
 
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Good question. Especially for those that ordered before options became available. Early supporters in a way. Some of those that have signed on as dealers have free shipping.

We are offering no options. Extras maybe, at this time we plan that production rifles will all be the same. There may be slight differances between batches as at this price point we reserve the right to shop around for some parts like, triggers, stocks and mags but all the majior parts are manufactured by Kodiak.
 
Are there any rifles/ pistols in Canada that are currently sold without an FRT ? I guess I am looking for precedence for "sale and possession of firearms without an FRT" as it as that is the only other argument that can be made to support Wolverine's interpretation and classification if challenged.

Is there any place in the law that states that a firearm MUST have an FRT entry to be bought/sold/used in Canada? -> No

Are there definitions of what the classifications of firearms are? ->Yes


So, moving along:


Given that there are three classes of firearms in Canada: Prohibited, Restricted, and Non-Restricted;

Is the WK180C a firearm (as per definition)? -> Yes

Is the WK180C named as prohibited or restricted firearm? -> No

Does the WK180C have physical dimensions/features that make it prohibited or restricted firearm? -> No

If the WK180C is a firearm, and it is not a prohibited or restricted firearm, then the WK180C is a non-restricted firearm.



I mean, this is a simplistic approach, sure, but that's what you have to follow when looking at laws: what's actually written.


Now, if Joe the Generic Cop sees this firearm, he, whom cannot know ALL the laws, could have reasonable doubt that you are using a restricted firearm in a non-prescribed way, could compel you to surrender said firearm to have it inspected/verified/etc.

Will this piss you off? Of course. Is he in his policing rights to compel you: yes. Could you sue him/his department for your 'loss of enjoyment' if it takes months to have it checked out? You could try, just start a thread here and I'll grab popcorn! :)
 
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I can't give you exact weights as the final barrel for production rifles has not been turned yet. From what I read here we need to keep her as light as we can afford and still keep in budget.

I can't give you length as the mid length gas system is still on the drawing board.

We have only today finalized our hand guard design, Kodiak will be making it in house, she will be unique. Featuring a 1913 rail on top an M-Lok at 3, 6, and 9 o'clock, lightweight is a priority. I hope you will not feel the need to replace her when you handle her.

Our target weight is 7lbs but we still need sub 2 MOA, and keep below $1,000.00, I have set price as priority #1, time will tell.

hope I can put a bi-pod on it, just cause I'm a one arm bandit:)
 
You me ruined that it can take AR handguards, but which ones? Wouldn’t the piston affect which handguards could work?

Clearance over the gas block should the only issue, but you haven't seen our hand guard, I think it will be the last thing you will want to change. Better to consider a trigger up grade over the standard one, which can vary a lot and maybe upgrade the stock.
 
Is there any place in the law that states that a firearm MUST have an FRT entry to be bought/sold/used in Canada? -> No

Are there definitions of what the classifications of firearms are? ->Yes


There's even an entry that defines a non-restricted firearm as a firearm that is neither prohibited or restricted.

I'm gonna say no, this isn't wolverine's first rodeo, I'm sure they have proper legal council in place when making decisions like these. They are no fools.
 
If a gun isn't prohib, then it is either R or NR.

If it isn't prescribed as restricted... then it is NR.

That simple.

Expanded...

Is it a named prohib, full auto, converted auto or handgun with barrel 105mm or less or a handgun in 25acp/32acp? If yes, prohib. No...

Is it an named restricted or other handgun? Yes = restricted. No....

Is it restricted due to features like overall length or barrel length? Yes... restricted. No....

Then it is NR.

Is it a converted auto cz858 or swiss arms? Yes.

Is it named in the oic as R or NR? Yes. Then NR or R. No, prohib.

Okay thanks for that explanation. That explains the reasoning better. I am actually excited for this model to be produced. Can't wait to get mine.
 
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