New WK180-C
- Thread starter igojuone
- Start date
P0WERWAGON
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- burnaby BC كافر
there are no wear surfaces that are aluminum. the carrier runs on steel guides, that dont move. not an AR that has the bolt carrier rubbing all over.
That is true. Part of the longevity you get out of an AR15 upper receiver is due to the type 3, class II hard coat anodize. It can in certain forms have a hardness up to 70 Rc. Furthermore, you're talking about a bolt sliding fore and aft, with no appreciable wear outside of the sliding action. So absolutely, part of the life of an AR15 upper receiver is due to the hardness of the anodize.
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The website says AR-15 barrel but all that means is they use the same barrel (which is awesome) but so does the new RWA AR180 upper and it does not use an AR barrel nut to attach it and it does not fit AR handguards.
This rifle looks like a cross breed between an AR180B and an SU-16. It could very well turn out to be a quality entry level rifle but it's not some new high tech design that's going to shoot like an SL8.
From your list, other than the handguard that I feel will not be AR compatible (hope I'm wrong) all that's left is the buffer tube and stock. Which means dress it up a bit and change the barrel if you want (hopefully it's not pressed in) but other than that you're stuck with what you've got.
Have you ever handled anything from Kodiak? It's decent and suits it's function as an SKS chassis but these are not going to be precision instruments. I have faith that they can build a more consistent product than NEA/BCL but my expectations of them are similar to when I bought my Type 81, low.
I think people should see these in person before getting too excited about them being the next NR AR. We go through this every time there is a new non restricted rifle announced and the cheaper it is the more people get excited, then it's delivered and people realize that it's just another cheap gun with issues, some people will complain, others will spend a bunch of money on them trying to make them something they're not then lose a bunch selling them on the EE, and then it all starts over at the next rifle announcement and pre-sale.
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$1000 and you guys are #####ing that it doesnt have a bolt release? Neither does the SU16 but adding one is pretty easy. I'm already envisioning what material i'm going to 3d print the upper receiver hole plugs.
Lets take stock of rifles that checkmark everything or close to what this rifle can do....The closest thing to this in virtual everyway is the SU16. Same short stroke piston, rotating bolt head, STANAG mags, tactical looking rifle, but made of plastic. I have one, and after outfitting it with a pistol grip stock its coming out to be priced the same as the WK180.
No bolt release in stock form but making one is easy with some skills.
Mini-14. Overweight, nose heavy, hard to mount optics unless you put it in a Sparta stock at which point it becomes even heavier. Limited to 5 round proprietary magazines which are big $$ and finicky. again, no bolt release. not easily modified to accept one.
rock to lock sucks. Had one, sold it.
T97 - Definitively not lefty friendly. Hard to mount optics without a cheek weld unless you get the upper assembly but its past 1k at that point. it too has no bolt release (You starting to see a damn pattern here?!)
VZ58 in 223. Currently way above 1k mark, hard to mount optics, rock to lock mags unless you buy a magwell adapter, once again NO BOLT RELEASE in stock form...223 seems to be a bit more finicky.
So what have we discovered? Seems that a bolt release is not that high on the priority list on the majority of manufacturers.
Only real competition will be the up and coming Not Exactly Accurate AR15 NR version of the BCL 102, or Catatuna or whatever the latest ####ing name for that rifle is (i have one btw), and the bottom of the barrel parts assembled MacDef, neither of which one are actually in anyones hands either.
So who have i chosen to support? The one manufacturer who came out, made and priced what we have been asking for. I dont particularly need to spend another 1k on another rifle, but i'm a man of my word, and i'm going to put my wallet where my mouth is. This is the only way to try and steer the gun manufacturing where we want to see it go. The M10X would have been on my CC has it not been for Mickey Mouse playing stupid games, and thats how i will let the manufacturers know what i want.
I swear this rifle could be $200 and you'd STILL find something to complain about....
Want all the low drag high tacticool action as you punch paper in the woods? Wait for the MacDef at double the price when done...
Lets take stock of rifles that checkmark everything or close to what this rifle can do....The closest thing to this in virtual everyway is the SU16. Same short stroke piston, rotating bolt head, STANAG mags, tactical looking rifle, but made of plastic. I have one, and after outfitting it with a pistol grip stock its coming out to be priced the same as the WK180.
No bolt release in stock form but making one is easy with some skills.
Mini-14. Overweight, nose heavy, hard to mount optics unless you put it in a Sparta stock at which point it becomes even heavier. Limited to 5 round proprietary magazines which are big $$ and finicky. again, no bolt release. not easily modified to accept one.
rock to lock sucks. Had one, sold it.
T97 - Definitively not lefty friendly. Hard to mount optics without a cheek weld unless you get the upper assembly but its past 1k at that point. it too has no bolt release (You starting to see a damn pattern here?!)
VZ58 in 223. Currently way above 1k mark, hard to mount optics, rock to lock mags unless you buy a magwell adapter, once again NO BOLT RELEASE in stock form...223 seems to be a bit more finicky.
So what have we discovered? Seems that a bolt release is not that high on the priority list on the majority of manufacturers.
Only real competition will be the up and coming Not Exactly Accurate AR15 NR version of the BCL 102, or Catatuna or whatever the latest ####ing name for that rifle is (i have one btw), and the bottom of the barrel parts assembled MacDef, neither of which one are actually in anyones hands either.
So who have i chosen to support? The one manufacturer who came out, made and priced what we have been asking for. I dont particularly need to spend another 1k on another rifle, but i'm a man of my word, and i'm going to put my wallet where my mouth is. This is the only way to try and steer the gun manufacturing where we want to see it go. The M10X would have been on my CC has it not been for Mickey Mouse playing stupid games, and thats how i will let the manufacturers know what i want.
I swear this rifle could be $200 and you'd STILL find something to complain about....
Want all the low drag high tacticool action as you punch paper in the woods? Wait for the MacDef at double the price when done...
ComradeVlad
Regular
- Location
- To the West
hmmmm thats purdy cool. I thought it was mainly steel on aluminum and thats why u should run them well lubed all the time...
Lungorthin
Regular
- Location
- Calgary, AB
Haha dude... Just because the fact I prefer a bolt release doesn't mean it's a complaint or that it's a bad rifle in any way.
Just stated my opinion of what I like on my guns. Someone else's personal preference shouldn't ruin the rifle for you or anyone else.
Take a chill pill and try not to let it ruin your day. Goodness..
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I have wanted an AR'ish NR rifle for a LONG time now. I thought about the SU16 (glad I didn't get one) and then I was super excited about the M10X and, then the price ordeal put it out of my range. well... looks like my prayers have been answered! super excited to see more of this rifle!!!
I've often said the emotions you superimpose on other peoples writing speaks more about your mental state than mine. My post wasn't written in anger, frustration or irritation and it certainly didn't ruin my day. After all, the lack of one feature most gun already don't come with is not forcing me to spend 2x the money.
I'll get to enjoy it....and that puts a smile on my face.
I'll get to enjoy it....and that puts a smile on my face.
Lungorthin
Regular
- Location
- Calgary, AB
Haha okay, dude whatever you say. But it seems like you did that to my post as well...
When your language includes words like "#####ing" and another word you censored, and all caps few times, it usually fairly safe to assume you're fairly passionate on the subject. I'm sure anyone else reading it would assume the same. After all, you did write quite a long post in lieu of mine.
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You think I'm being a pompous ass?
Lol, FIGHT!
Who cares boys, some AR's use 6061 and some use 7075, they all work and they all last longer than most civilians will ever need them to.
On a rifle like this I do not expect them to use 7075 and it makes no difference in my decision as to whether I want one or not.
This rifle is aimed at all the guys who have been asking for a more modern AR180 made with an aluminum upper and lower at a price around the $1000 mark. If people start asking them to add options or more expensive alloys it turns into a $2000 rifle and is out of reach of it's target market.
These are entry level rifles, if you own a Tavor, ACR, XCR, APC, or high end AR you're not going to want one of these unless you're looking for a beater truck gun.
I'm hoping these have a bunch of parts compatibility with the AR180B so spare parts start to become available for my rifle. Maybe some day a stripped upper (if it is compatible with an AR180 lower) would be nice so I can throw my NR length 300BLK barrel into it. More options are always nice.
If you want a taste of what these will be like go have a look at the SKS chassis they build. It's a little crude, finishing is only decent but it's affordable and if they can build a reliable rifle I think it will be a success. Just don't go thinking this is going to be some latest greatest rifle that will satisfy the masses, these rifles are cheap and you typically get what you pay for.
Hopefully more information is released soon about parts compatibility with AR's and AR180's. I know a lot of guys are already planning to get one and dump a bunch of money into them customizing them to be their dream rifle but I think people should slow down and wait to find out if there is compatibility. RWA is building an aluminum upper receiver and it uses an AR barrel but is not retained with a standard barrel nut and therefore does not accept AR hand guards, this could easily be just like that. The Kodiak web site says AR barrel but nothing else so it's all just wishful thinking right now.
Who cares boys, some AR's use 6061 and some use 7075, they all work and they all last longer than most civilians will ever need them to.
On a rifle like this I do not expect them to use 7075 and it makes no difference in my decision as to whether I want one or not.
This rifle is aimed at all the guys who have been asking for a more modern AR180 made with an aluminum upper and lower at a price around the $1000 mark. If people start asking them to add options or more expensive alloys it turns into a $2000 rifle and is out of reach of it's target market.
These are entry level rifles, if you own a Tavor, ACR, XCR, APC, or high end AR you're not going to want one of these unless you're looking for a beater truck gun.
I'm hoping these have a bunch of parts compatibility with the AR180B so spare parts start to become available for my rifle. Maybe some day a stripped upper (if it is compatible with an AR180 lower) would be nice so I can throw my NR length 300BLK barrel into it. More options are always nice.
If you want a taste of what these will be like go have a look at the SKS chassis they build. It's a little crude, finishing is only decent but it's affordable and if they can build a reliable rifle I think it will be a success. Just don't go thinking this is going to be some latest greatest rifle that will satisfy the masses, these rifles are cheap and you typically get what you pay for.
Hopefully more information is released soon about parts compatibility with AR's and AR180's. I know a lot of guys are already planning to get one and dump a bunch of money into them customizing them to be their dream rifle but I think people should slow down and wait to find out if there is compatibility. RWA is building an aluminum upper receiver and it uses an AR barrel but is not retained with a standard barrel nut and therefore does not accept AR hand guards, this could easily be just like that. The Kodiak web site says AR barrel but nothing else so it's all just wishful thinking right now.
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Re-read what info they have posted.
They are using standard AR barrels and a barrel nut so that an off the shelf FF handguard that installs on the barrel nut can be used.
They stated they are not going to accommodate the fitment of standard AR handguards that would normally require the front plate that installs next to the front sight base for front fitment of the clamshells.
I said the potential is there that this operating system (which sounds like it will be floated) with a high quality AR barrel and high quality ammo is there to give current high dollar alternatives a run for their money.
Just because it is only $1000 doesn’t mean it won’t shoot or is a crappy entry level gun.
There is every indication that they are using off the shelf components to keep the costs down - they have stated such.
Logic dictates that if they are securing the barrel with a barrel nut, they are not employing a press (and the extra steps that involves) to secure the barrel. So AR furniture, trigger group, barrel. Picitiny and m-loc compatible interfaces. Proprietary operating system and receivers.
This thing offers AR compatibility where it matters and is proprietary where it doesn’t matter.
I haven’t dealt with Kodiak, but I have dealt with Wolverine and John. I trust Wolverine’s integrity and believe the QC or the backing will be there.
If the Chinese can make an AR, I suspect Kodiak can make receivers and small parts or sub-contract the necessary bits.
Perhaps, but you can’t deny the possibilities....
P0WERWAGON
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- burnaby BC كافر
you cant do that. this is CGN. you have to tell him he is. dont apologize. you will get infractions for that and then turn pink
I haven't found any info stating they are using a standard AR barrel nut, that is great news though.
I agree with your comments about Wolverine. I've never had a bad experience with them and I know they stand behind what they sell.
All I'm saying is that before people go get themselves all excited thinking they're going to buy a high quality well finished rifle for $1000 they should look at some of the stuff already on the market from Kodiak. The SKS chassis I handled the other day was decent and fit well but it was not what I would consider well finished and refined. We see this every time we start talking about a new rifle, everyone has high hopes and dreams of their new forever rifle then it's delivered and it doesn't live up to the hype.
All I'm hoping for with this rifle is something reliable and fun to shoot. Accuracy potential and being able to drop a thousand dollars worth of upgrades are of little concern to me, if it will shoot as well as my AR180 or AR with rack grade barrel it is more than accurate enough. If I want accuracy and high quality build and finishing I'll buy another rifle from ATRS.
You're right though, the more info that comes out the more possibilities this rifle seems to have.
