Normal Looking spent cartridge?

mb571

mb571

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Hi folks. I am new to shooting. Just got my PAL and and am planning to target shoot my my 3 boys. I bought a RAR model 8301 and am quite pleased with it. I have Leupold see through rings and the Nikon Prostaff Rimfire II 4-12x40.
We went out today with the whole family and had a great time. I was trying 4 different ammo's to see what would be good for us. Browning Performance Rimfire, Federal Champion, American Eagle, and CCI Standard Velocity. I fired off about 30 of each of the last three. About 3 FTF's with the Fed/AE, 1 with the CCI. I had the bulk box of Browning but had over 20 FTF's in about the 200 rounds we shot. Is this normal? It was the cheapest ammo. I will post a picture to show what the FTF's look like. Does it look like they are getting struck okay?
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[/url]20180212_193031 by Mark Baxter, on Flickr/[/IMG]
Well tried to post a photo but it is not showing up!!
 
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Original posters picture,
2m43bjb.jpg



Almost looks like the firing pins hitting to far towards the center?
EDIT: A bit of digging says this is normal for the RAR. If the other brands worked ok it more than likely the cheap ammo with inconsistent priming , bulk 22lr can be hit or miss at times for sure.
 
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RRH.01 said:
Original posters picture,
2m43bjb.jpg



Almost looks like the firing pins hitting to far towards the center?
EDIT: A bit of digging says this is normal for the RAR. If the other brands worked ok it more than likely the cheap ammo with inconsistent priming , bulk 22lr can be hit or miss at times for sure.
Click to expand...

Having fired my share of cheap .22 ammo (all of the brands except the Browning) mentioned and then some) I have never seen this many FTFs in one outing; ever. Have you thouroughly cleaned the bolt (take it apart clean and lightly lube)?

If you have, and seen no improvement, Take the gun and some leftover ammo to your dealer and tell him you want the rifle to work reliably; please fix it. They are a nice rifle, and I looked at one, and almost bought it; but many years ago I got a bad mini-14, and could not bring myself to buy another ruger.
 
XEbrxfw.jpg


The primer needs to be “pinched” in the rim. A hammer and anvil, so to speak. The position of your strikes seem to be all hammer, no anvil.

You’ll see these strikes are rather light looking, because they’re hitting not only the rim, but the rim is also supported against the chamber. Your strikes look hard and deep, overcoming poor pin placement with brute force (most of the time).

My $0.02
 
Strange looking pimer strikes, but maybe as RRH said it's normal for this rifle. Out of the dozen or so rimfires I've owned they've all had strikes like kodiakjacks pics.
I can say though that I had more than normal FTF's from Browning 22 ammo. Brought 1 bulk pack when I 1st seen them on shelves just to try and won't be buying them again. I've always had best reliability and accuracy from CCI ammo,so I pretty much stick with it.
 
RRH.01 said:
Original posters picture,
2m43bjb.jpg



Almost looks like the firing pins hitting to far towards the center?
EDIT: A bit of digging says this is normal for the RAR. If the other brands worked ok it more than likely the cheap ammo with inconsistent priming , bulk 22lr can be hit or miss at times for sure.
Click to expand...

Those striker footprints do not look undesirable. Striking inside the outer edge is not a bad thing. There are guys posting about modifying their strikers to do just that to improve ignition, reduce required striker spring strength, and, potentially, improve accuracy.

See, for example, h t t p://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1012433
h t t p://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=957961
h t t p://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=602579&page=6
h t t p://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1037042

Failure to fire is more likely in the OP's case the result of ammo quality.
 
grauhanen said:
Those striker footprints do not look undesirable. Striking inside the outer edge is not a bad thing. There are guys posting about modifying their strikers to do just that to improve ignition, reduce required striker spring strength, and, potentially, improve accuracy.

See, for example, h t t p://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1012433
h t t p://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=957961
h t t p://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=602579&page=6
h t t p://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1037042

Failure to fire is more likely in the OP's case the result of ammo quality.
Click to expand...

I disagree completely. While this is a fairly small sample size, a 10% failure rate is absolutely not normal, even with the cheapest junk ammo.
 
First thing I thought looking at those photos~it's a rimfire trying to be a centerfire!

While I can't remember ever having having spent cases look like that...I would automatically discount the results from that Browning ammo. I've read about lots of people not getting good results from it. If you're having ignition issues with a good selection of better ammo, then there might be cause for concern.
 
Scotty454 said:
I disagree completely. While this is a fairly small sample size, a 10% failure rate is absolutely not normal, even with the cheapest junk ammo.
Click to expand...

Yes, a 10% failure rate is not normal. Of course not all ammo is the same, and that's why I said in the OP's case -- with his rifle and his ammo -- the mix was not successful. The curious thing is that when using CCI ammo the OP says he had only one failure to fire. As you say, however, it is a small sample size.

My main point was that the striker footprint is not necessarily undesirable (see the links above). But perhaps with the OP's RAR it is.
 
If you purchased this rifle new, take it back to the dealer.
There is no way those are normal foot prints on the case head.
Find another 22 and fire them off and I'll bet they will fire.
Make sure the firing pin hits a different area.

What a pizz-awff.
 
If you feel like nailing down the problem, you could buy a bulk pack of cheap ammo, and borrow a freind’s 22 with a more traditional strike. Split the box evenly between the two rifles and keep track of the FTFs per gun.

Kind of a waste of ammo, but if it performs as well as the borrowed gun, then that $20 box of ammo just saved you $200 at the gunsmith...


Again, just my $0.02
 
kamlooky said:
If you purchased this rifle new, take it back to the dealer.
There is no way those are normal foot prints on the case head.
Find another 22 and fire them off and I'll bet they will fire.
Make sure the firing pin hits a different area.

What a pizz-awff.
Click to expand...

I had not received my PAL in the mail yet when all the Boxing week sales were on. So a friend mail ordered from theammosource.com (from Ontario and we are in BC) and held on to it till I got my PAL last week. Guess that is the rub...getting a good deal via mail order. Will certainly be looking into some of the suggestions such as cleaning and lubing the bolt assembly (will have to research the parts). I think ammo will play a role too but think I will still see some FTF's with good ammo.
Is it a story worth contacting Ruger over?
M
 
Attached is a photo of firing pin strikes while reshaping the firing pins on my CZ 455's.



I cannot say I checked the imprints on my 10/22 but have never had a FTF or FTE except once and it fired on the 2nd attempt and I do not recall what it was.

The imprint should be consistent and the reshaping was done over a period of time.
Your imprints do not appear consistent.
 
By all appearances, the firing pin strike on the OP's photos are just a bit too far inboard from the rim to
produce consistent ignition. Remember how these cases are primed. The priming mixture is in the folded
rim. Horseman 2 has shown a modified firing pin strike, but notice that it is still right on the rim, not well
inboard as on the OP's pictures.
I would be willing to bet substantial coin that those misfires would have fired in a 22 that hit them a bit
more outboard. EE.
 
Send the pics and details to Ruger, they have zero written or implied warranty but use to have very good customer service.
 
Ruger has amazing customer service. Call them to see what they think.
On the ammo issue. I have a box of the Browning cr@p I’m trying to burn through right now. Lots of FTF issues in my M&P22. At least a once per mag so 10%. The gun hasn’t caused that kind of issue with other ammo. CCI mini mags are by far the most consistent. In fact I don’t think I had a single failure from a box of 300. Worth the extra $ I’d say.
This is the Browning stuff........

View attachment 152885
 
mb571 said:
Does it look like they are getting struck okay?
Click to expand...

The penetration looks deep, but a little too far in from the edge of the rim. Would you be able to cut a spent casing in half with a dremel? We need to see how well the firing pin is compressing the rim. Also, I usually rotate a misfired round 180 degrees and try to shoot it again. Most of the time, it goes off on the second hit, and that would be poor distribution of priming material.

Here's a good hit, and a bad hit. The bad one gave me occasional misfires.


 
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