Sako / M16 extractor on Rem 700 comprises strength?

The cut in the bolt and the extractor are essentially the same as in the gunsmith modifications.
In the event of a casehead failure, the results will be the same.
Over the years, I have seen a few casehead failures. If one happens, the standard 700 is the rifle to be shooting.
The casehead failures that I have seen were caused by barrel obstruction, handloads, and wrong cartidges.
Total casehead failures are rare. The extractor conversions are common and popular. A casehead failure in an altered rifle very, very seldom happens.

The PT&G bolt bodies and bolts are beautifully machined. I suspect that their liability is low. They are not selling rifles. The buyer of their products is doing the installation and would be responsible for any consequences.
 
Ok, thanks.
I was looking at one of the Rem 700 actions that xtreme gun shooting center is selling. Looks to be a good price, comes with a PTG enhanced bolt, rail and is supposed to be trued up.
Dave

tiriaq said:
The cut in the bolt and the extractor are essentially the same as in the gunsmith modifications.
In the event of a casehead failure, the results will be the same.
Over the years, I have seen a few casehead failures. If one happens, the standard 700 is the rifle to be shooting.
The casehead failures that I have seen were caused by barrel obstruction, handloads, and wrong cartidges.
Total casehead failures are rare. The extractor conversions are common and popular. A casehead failure in an altered rifle very, very seldom happens.

The PT&G bolt bodies and bolts are beautifully machined. I suspect that their liability is low. They are not selling rifles. The buyer of their products is doing the installation and would be responsible for any consequences.
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Personally, I would not reject a M700 rifle just because it had a Sako or M-16 style extractor. I have enough experience that I am confident that I can avoid the circumstances that would result in a case failure. And I shoot right/right, and wear glasses.

When it comes right down to it, there are a lot of popular rifles that protect a shooter less than a M700 with extractor conversion. There are ones that I would not want to be anywhere near in the event of a casehead failure.
 
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Rman said:
Dennis, given the size of the extractor, as well as the size of the hole that it would have to pass through, how would a large enough piece get to where it needed to go to cause a death?
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Consider the fact that a heavy bullet gets pushed to 3000 f/s through a rifled barrel... a piece of an extractor may blow out at 30,000 f/s. It may not weigh much but it is capable of serious damage. There is no small hole it has to exit through, it's a wide open large space.
 
Hey tiriaq,
How would you rate a Win 70 to the Rem 700 in terms of protecting the shooter? What you are saying of the Remington makes it really appealing and is something a shooter aught to seriously consider.
 
guntech said:
Well catastrophic case failures are rare but I am a firm believer in the 3 rings of steel.

I have seen for my own eyes the results of catastrophic case failures in Remington 700's and a few other actions. The 700's were the only actions that were not destroyed and only one of the 700's required an extractor repair. The other 700's survived with no damage. That included a 7mm Rem Mag where the owner fired a .303 British cartridge in it (in the late 60's). The back of the case fire formed into the same shape as the 7mm Magnum case, belt and all... and the front of the case was not as long so it looked weird... the bullet exited the barrel. The case did not rupture due to the design of the 3 rings of steel. The barrel had to be removed to open the bolt... the fired case had to be pried out of the bolt face... only then did I realize what had happened as you could plainly read the head stamp - .303 British. When the barrel was reinstalled the headspace was still correct and the owner went on to use that rifle for many more years. Other makes of actions would have been totally destroyed.

In m opinion the Remington 700 original extractor system makes it the strongest safest 2 locking lug bolt action ever produced to this day. In over 50 years of gunsmithing I have seen many blown up rifles for a variety of reasons. I have never seen a blown up 700. I have corresponded about a couple of altered 700's where serioius injury occurred and with one resulting death from a Sako extractor through the brain. (A left hand bench shooter with a right hand action)
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How in the ####... A .30 cal bullet made it all the way through a 7mm barrel?? Did it shear off the jacket on the outside of the bullet, or did it swage it down (Violently, lol) to 7mm?? That's almost unbelievable...
 
coach71 said:
Hey tiriaq,
How would you rate a Win 70 to the Rem 700 in terms of protecting the shooter? What you are saying of the Remington makes it really appealing and is something a shooter aught to seriously consider.
Click to expand...

I would rate the M700 higher than a push feed M70, and either higher than a CRF (long extractor) M70.
The M700 is the best commonly available rifle from the standpoint of protecting the shooter in the event of a catastrophic case failure.
 
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Scotty454 said:
How in the ####... A .30 cal bullet made it all the way through a 7mm barrel?? Did it shear off the jacket on the outside of the bullet, or did it swage it down (Violently, lol) to 7mm?? That's almost unbelievable...
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A few years ago, I encountered a push feed Model 70 in 7mm Remington Magnum, in which a .308 Winchester cartridge had been fired. The bullet exited the barrel; the right hand side of the stock was blown out, and the bolt ruined. Turned it over to a CFSC instructor to use as a training aid.
Getting a lead cored bullet sized down while going through the neck and leade portion of the barrel generally isn't a problem; the bullet is quite malleable. It is the failure of the cartridge case with resultant release of high pressure gas that does the damage.
 
tiriaq said:
I would rate the M700 higher than a push feed M70, and either higher than a CRF (long extractor) M70.
The M700 is the best commonly available rifle from the standpoint of protecting the shooter in the event of a catastrophic case failure.
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What are your feelings on the Howa 1500?
 
Scotty454 said:
How in the ####... A .30 cal bullet made it all the way through a 7mm barrel?? Did it shear off the jacket on the outside of the bullet, or did it swage it down (Violently, lol) to 7mm?? That's almost unbelievable...
Click to expand...

If I had not seen it I would find it hard to believe as well... but because the case was so fully supported by the 700 design, the bullet (.311") swaged down within it's own length, first through diameter of the neck and then the diameter of the bore (.284") I don't know of another bolt action that would survive that.
 
There are reports of bullets being swaged down when fired. Ackley chambered a M1917 Enfield in .30-06 to .35 Whelan. The neck and throat areas were reamed out. He maintained that the rifle fired normally. Apparently a 6.5mm Arisaka rifle was rechambered to .30-06. Recoil was reported to be severe...
 
I would suspect that the Howa and the push feed M70 would be comparable insofar as handling gas goes.
 
Ok, one more question then I'm done. In descending order, what do you guys think are the 5 safest actions to put your face behind? Assume a blow up of some sort, plugged barrel, faulty brass, wrong load, etc.
 
Well, it's time for me to cool things down here.
I have no horse running in this race and I see lots of brain washing in this discussion.
I agree that installing Sako extractor compromises the Rem 700 breaching integrity.
Is original Rem 700 action safe? Yes it is.
Is it safest of them all? Not by the long shot.
IMHO actions employing baffles like Savage 110 and Browning A bolt are at least as safe as Rem 700.
Wby Mark V action would be as good or even better and that includes Omark Sportco 44 as well.
Many other off my head are super safe to mention; Browning BBR, Rem mod 788, Shultz & Larsen.
To stay short, I have no Rem 700 rifles in my collection in the last 25 years after all those recalls and QC issues.
GR8 2c worth.
 
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gunrunner8 said:
Well, it's time for me to cool things down here.
I have no horse running in this race and I see lots of brain washing in this discussion.
I agree that installing Sako extractor compromises the Rem 700 breaching integrity.
Is original Rem 700 action safe? Yes it is.
Is it safest of them all? Not by the long shot.
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Basically all factory actions are considered very safe... no argument here.

But compare actions that use only 2 locking lugs... within those parameters the 700 is superior in containing a catastrophic case failure.

My experience in 50 years of gunsmithing suggests no other 2 locking lug action comes close.
 
guntech said:
Well catastrophic case failures are rare but I am a firm believer in the 3 rings of steel.

I have seen for my own eyes the results of catastrophic case failures in Remington 700's and a few other actions. The 700's were the only actions that were not destroyed and only one of the 700's required an extractor repair. The other 700's survived with no damage. That included a 7mm Rem Mag where the owner fired a .303 British cartridge in it (in the late 60's). The back of the case fire formed into the same shape as the 7mm Magnum case, belt and all... and the front of the case was not as long so it looked weird... the bullet exited the barrel. The case did not rupture due to the design of the 3 rings of steel. The barrel had to be removed to open the bolt... the fired case had to be pried out of the bolt face... only then did I realize what had happened as you could plainly read the head stamp - .303 British. When the barrel was reinstalled the headspace was still correct and the owner went on to use that rifle for many more years. Other makes of actions would have been totally destroyed.

In m opinion the Remington 700 original extractor system makes it the strongest safest 2 locking lug bolt action ever produced to this day. In over 50 years of gunsmithing I have seen many blown up rifles for a variety of reasons. I have never seen a blown up 700. I have corresponded about a couple of altered 700's where serioius injury occurred and with one resulting death from a Sako extractor through the brain. (A left hand bench shooter with a right hand action)
Click to expand...

I don't even want to think about the pressure that generated! And the bullet exited the barrel? That's terrifying and a little hard to imagine, but as they say, nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool!
 
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