Amherstburg man fined $1K for hunting coyotes on private land

heliace said:
Proper thing. Half should go to the land owner. I think that coming on to my property, that I have maintained and sweated my azz off making nice trails, with out permission, is akin to stealing.
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And what will happen to land access once land owners get paid for every guy they catch trespassing? Land owners should have control over who is and who is not trespassing, but should they start to get paid for every person caught on their land, NONE of them will allow access without being paid.
 
cath8r said:
I live in the area and this has been an issue in amherstburg and neighboring Essex for a few years.
Guys are trespassing and hunting in no hunting zones with zero respect for boundaries/permission and laws. This guy is part of a group that has a reputation of sorts. Would not be shocked if the rest of the group was blocking roads with rifles in their trucks while he pushed the coyotes out of that private woods.
Farmers that used to grant permission to hunt coyotes in these parts often don't now due to the actions of these turkeys.
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Nailed it. They tend to damage property also, such as drive through wheat fields, rumored to take game out of season etc. They are "visiting" farms to the east now. I had a pair un-casing guns in a lane late Sunday 60' off the road beside a residence trying to hide in a fence-line, property was posted. I recognized the one turkey from prior run-ins. First time I caught them they were politely advised it was hunted by others (local gun club buds get permission, truth and what I tell everyone), got lots of polite "but please I'm a nice guy we're nice guys" followed by being told to F myself. This time they saw me coming jumped in their truck floored it and left a lovely doughnut rut back to the road. If you're a landowner and you meet these geniuses only a couple of times, soon you're going to tell everyone who shows up asking to hunt no. These guys give all firearm owners and hunters a bad rep/rap.
 
The only issue we ever had to do with trespassing was coyote hunting with dogs. We could tell by the way the hounds were tounging that they had the yote caught pretty close to the land owners house. 2 of us went in the laneway and seen that 3 hounds had the coyote caught, and were fighting right up against the garage.
I ran up to the house to speak with the owner but their was nobody home. We couldn't leave the scrap to continue, and couldn't or wouldnt shoot the coyote around buildings and house. We broke up and caught the dogs, and allowed the coyote to escape, and as this was going on, the owner returned home and was not happy. I tried to explain the situation and also explain that the dogs go where the coyote goes and unfortunately we can't control this.
He said he was calling the o.p.p and having us charged with trespassing. Instead of arguing, I said we will go and sit out on the road and wait for the police. When they arrived, we explained what had happened and the officer then went and spoke with the owner and convinced him not to press any charges.
A few days later we dropped off a apology letter and thanked him for deciding not to press charges, along with a Tim Hortons gift card. Later that winter we were running another coyote in the same area, and same owner was driving past and seen us and stopped and apologized and thanked us for the letter and gift card. He then told us that we could hunt his property from then on with no problems.
Unfortunatly alot of land owners have run into trespassers and had to deal with it over and over again, and it does give hunters and fisherman a bad name to the point where alot of people don't want to allow the good permission to be on their property.
 
rral22 said:
And what will happen to land access once land owners get paid for every guy they catch trespassing? Land owners should have control over who is and who is not trespassing, but should they start to get paid for every person caught on their land, NONE of them will allow access without being paid.
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Whats wrong with that? I have a lot of money and time invested in my land. Why should someone else get to enjoy the fruits of my labor with out paying for it? You pay a taxi driver to sit in his cab, you pay an airline to ride in a plane...pay me to use my land, or, go buy your own. Makes sense?
 
In Canada you are allowed to charge money to people for access to your land for things like grazing, mineral exploration, pasture rental etc. What you cannot do is charge anybody money for hunting access, you can charge them to park the trailer while they are hunting, but you can't charge people to hunt. Its a fine line I know, but its there, you either allow people to hunt or you don't but you can't charge money for hunting privileges
 
daveyn said:
In Canada you are allowed to charge money to people for access to your land for things like grazing, mineral exploration, pasture rental etc. What you cannot do is charge anybody money for hunting access, you can charge them to park the trailer while they are hunting, but you can't charge people to hunt. Its a fine line I know, but its there, you either allow people to hunt or you don't but you can't charge money for hunting privileges
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That depends where you live. Its a dumb law.
 
rral22 said:
And what will happen to land access once land owners get paid for every guy they catch trespassing? Land owners should have control over who is and who is not trespassing, but should they start to get paid for every person caught on their land, NONE of them will allow access without being paid.
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Whats wrong with charging for hunting access? It obviously has a value.
 
rockport guy said:
Here in NB, you can mark your land. If you don't mark it... you can Hunt... If its marked... you cant.
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Yellow discs placed along the property line, and at the corners mean hunting by permission of the land owner, and the land owner can hunt. Red discs mean no hunting, shooting or trapping by anyone, including the land owner. Blue discs prohibit the use of motorized vehicles on agricultural land.
The discs can be replaced by painted bands.
If there are no markings then hunting is allowed as long as it qualifies the provisions of distance from a dwelling etc. Trespass laws still apply, the land owner can still ask you to leave if he wishes.
 
Dogleg said:
Whats wrong with charging for hunting access? It obviously has a value.
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Because the landowner does not own the wildlife and as soon as you are allowed to charge a fee to access the wildlife it then becomes profitable for you to contain and control the wildlife. If your property has more and bigger deer than my property then you can charge more than I can so it becomes in your best interest to start putting up higher fences or other methods to make sure the wildlife doesn't wander off. It would also be in your interest to buy more and bigger parcels of land and by doing so severely restricting access to the general population if its in your benefit to keep anyone except paid hunters off of your property and the surrounding property. Then it evolves to booking hunts where you only get access during your 5 day window regardless of the weather and no refunds. I can start charging trophy fees over and above access fees etc etc. It just gets bigger and bigger until the only way you can have access to the resource is if you paid for it. STarts to get a little confusing as to who actually owns the wildlife at that point. Its a slippery slope that once you start that ball you can't stop it. Soon only rich people will be able to hunt kind of like medieval England where the serf doesn't get to hunt the kings deer. Then the government starts charging access to crown land just because there's profit in it and its a nasty place to go. Kind of like Texas
 
colonel3006 said:
The only issue we ever had to do with trespassing was coyote hunting with dogs. We could tell by the way the hounds were tounging that they had the yote caught pretty close to the land owners house. 2 of us went in the laneway and seen that 3 hounds had the coyote caught, and were fighting right up against the garage.
I ran up to the house to speak with the owner but their was nobody home. We couldn't leave the scrap to continue, and couldn't or wouldnt shoot the coyote around buildings and house. We broke up and caught the dogs, and allowed the coyote to escape, and as this was going on, the owner returned home and was not happy. I tried to explain the situation and also explain that the dogs go where the coyote goes and unfortunately we can't control this.
He said he was calling the o.p.p and having us charged with trespassing. Instead of arguing, I said we will go and sit out on the road and wait for the police. When they arrived, we explained what had happened and the officer then went and spoke with the owner and convinced him not to press any charges.
A few days later we dropped off a apology letter and thanked him for deciding not to press charges, along with a Tim Hortons gift card. Later that winter we were running another coyote in the same area, and same owner was driving past and seen us and stopped and apologized and thanked us for the letter and gift card. He then told us that we could hunt his property from then on with no problems.
Unfortunatly alot of land owners have run into trespassers and had to deal with it over and over again, and it does give hunters and fisherman a bad name to the point where alot of people don't want to allow the good permission to be on their property.
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Running hounds for coyotes will likely be on the chopping block in the near future because of incidents like this. While I respect the method of hunting it has no place in areas with higher population densities, such as most areas in Southern Ontario. There simply isn't enough public land, too many roads, and far too much private property being owned by non hunters for these hunts to happen without making someone angry. I've been invited by a couple different groups to run hounds and while I would really like to participate, the number of stories about angry landowners has prevented me from participating in a hound hunt. From what I gather, the houndsmen pretty much expect the hounds to trespass every hunt because "that's the way it goes" or "it's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission".


I was out this week trying to find new land to hunt and was denied at the 4 properties I visited. Three declined due to past experiences with poachers and trespassers while the 4th was clearly a non hunter as she nearly shed a tear and closed the door on me after i mentioned hunting turkey.
 
canadian hunter312 said:
Running hounds for coyotes will likely be on the chopping block in the near future because of incidents like this. While I respect the method of hunting it has no place in areas with higher population densities, such as most areas in Southern Ontario. There simply isn't enough public land, too many roads, and far too much private property being owned by non hunters for these hunts to happen without making someone angry. I've been invited by a couple different groups to run hounds and while I would really like to participate, the number of stories about angry landowners has prevented me from participating in a hound hunt. From what I gather, the houndsmen pretty much expect the hounds to trespass every hunt because "that's the way it goes" or "it's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission".


I was out this week trying to find new land to hunt and was denied at the 4 properties I visited. Three declined due to past experiences with poachers and trespassers while the 4th was clearly a non hunter as she nearly shed a tear and closed the door on me after i mentioned hunting turkey.
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You're 100% right. Years ago when I first going out yote hunting, pretty much all landowners were born and raised on these same farms, and were more than happy that there were guys out, cutting the coyote population down, and no problems at all letting people hunt their property. Now adays it seems as though there's more people moving up here and buying property in the country in which alot of them are dead set against hunting.
 
canadian hunter312 said:
the houndsmen pretty much expect the hounds to trespass every hunt because "that's the way it goes" or "it's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission".


I was out this week trying to find new land to hunt and was denied at the 4 properties I visited. Three declined due to past experiences with poachers and trespassers while the 4th was clearly a non hunter as she nearly shed a tear and closed the door on me after i mentioned hunting turkey.
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On poaching, we had 2 deer left in a bean field this August ~ 50 and 100 yards off the road. I went to investigate, they had both gone down fast looked like rifle hits. While on the phone MNR appeared, asked me to leave them as they hoped the poachers returned to collect them, they never did. I've also found fresh deer gut piles in June a few years back, all I had to do was follow the tire tracks through the crop. In my area almost no-one gives permission except to the local gun club boys. The poaching and damage by "unknowns" has created an atmosphere of immediate mistrust.

"Coyote hunting" is almost synonymous with I'm poaching, damaging etc it's the bait line the turkeys use, they also use the hounds to give them license to trespass. When you have all the land between roads except two small parcels bordered by a river, finding guys in the middle of the block running a ditch for cover skepticism is merited. Also do I need my neighbors in the next block #####ing at me or hold a grudge when the jerks run their dogs through it? It's much easier to go with known locals whom you have a relationship with and clear communication. In my case I get a text from one of a group of guys advising me they are hunting, then I'm not sweating damage to crops/theft/poaching/artifact searching/growing weed etc. Final why guys get leery, I've even had guys steal firewood piled in the bush, run through crop, flatten orchard trees etc.
 
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