Extraction issues with Savage Mk1 and Mk2 rifles

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FLYBYU44

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So I have had both Savage Mark 1 and Mark 2 rifles and had this issue with all of them. I currently have a Savage Mark 1 FVT and after 300 or so rounds this issue reared it's head again. With certain shells (the ones that are most accurate) it will fail to extract them. Basically the extractor just bounces off the rim of the casing and I am stuck digging the empty out with my pocket knife. This is super annoying. My google searches revealed this is a very common issue and there are about a 100 ways people have tried to fix it, most sounded pretty kooky, such as sanding the chamber so it was loose! I happened across one fix that seemed more resonable though.

The firing pin, extractor and shell guide are all held to the bolt by a spring clip. This both retains them and provides spring tension for the shell guide and extractor. Apparently you can fit another clip over the original one and effectively double the spring pressure for the extractor. So I ordered one from Western Gun Parts and with some playing around last night I managed to get it to fit. It is still smaller than the bolt so you notice no issues cycling the bolt. The extractor is very hard to move now (before I could pull it out with my finger). I pulled the bullets and powder from a few cases (safety first!) and cycled them through the chamber, they extracted great! Now I just need to try it with live rounds, but before adding the other spring it would not extract my dummy rounds, so I think it is good.

Just an option if you are beating yourself up trying to shoot you Savage. I like everything else about the rifles, just a terrible bolt design.
 
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There are TWO parts to the extraction system on the Savage. These have a hook on one, and a bit of a rounded hook on the other. If you have assembled the bolt with the one with the rounded hook on the right side and the one with the hook on the left side, cases have problems being extracted.

Also, these parts are stamped. Sometimes there is a burr or edge on them. A few minutes polishing them up by putting them flat on a sharpening stone and moving them back and forth will eliminate these burrs. Do the firing pin also as it makes it a bit looser and does not hang up a bit.
 
It seems to be that Savage is not cutting the extractor slot close enough to the chamber mouth, so the claw barely has any rim to bite on and pull out the casing. The double bolt clip is unnecessary, you just have to file the slot down closer to the chamber wall. Do a little at a time and test until extraction is perfect, and the fix is permanent. Here's a post I made about it a while back:

RabidM4U5 said:
Keep in mind that I can't say for sure without having the rifle in hand, but as you describe the issue I'm pretty confident that there is an issue with how deep the extractor slots are cut, that is, they are not cut deep enough or close enough to the chamber wall. As you say, the casings aren't really stuck in the chamber, the bolt is just failing to pull them out. The extractor must be barely making contact with the rim, such that it can pull with a set amount of force before it'll slip over the rim and fail to extract. When the chamber is dry/clean, there is less resistance to pulling out the casing and you can eject those first 10-20 shots. Once some wax/lube gets in there, some resistance is added to removing the casing, could be a suction effect, but now this is too much force for the extractor claw to pull and it slips over the rim. It's gotta be on the ragged edge of contact.

Sorry for my lack of artistic ability, but this is an overhead, cutaway view of how I see the situation. If modification is made to allow the extractor claw to get closer to the chamber wall and make more contact with the rim, I think this issue will be solved for pretty much everyone affected by it. Then you can run lubed ammo to your heart's content.

Click to expand...
 
RabidM4U5 said:
It seems to be that Savage is not cutting the extractor slot close enough to the chamber mouth, so the claw barely has any rim to bite on and pull out the casing. The double bolt clip is unnecessary, you just have to file the slot down closer to the chamber wall. Do a little at a time and test until extraction is perfect, and the fix is permanent. Here's a post I made about it a while back:
Click to expand...

I just went and looked at it, mine is deep and right up to the chamber so I can't see that being the issue. If I filed it out anymore I would be filing through the chamber wall.
 
No clue about your issue, but I have the predessesor, a lakefield MK II with ejection issues, so I'm curious what you'll find out
 
FLYBYU44 said:
I just went and looked at it, mine is deep and right up to the chamber so I can't see that being the issue. If I filed it out anymore I would be filing through the chamber wall.
Click to expand...

Yeah, without having it in hand it's hard for me to say what might be going on, but I'm sure something must be off with the design/geometry of the extractor claw and/or the extractor slot in the breech. Does the claw come to a nice, sharp point where it should grab the rim? Does the angle of the slot ramp and the claw head look like a perfect match? See drawing, if the angles are off, the extractor claw could be pushed out away from the rim even though the slot was cut close to the chamber wall. I'm just suggesting possibilities to look for. If the claw is blued, where does the wear show up on the angled head of it? Can you possibly take a head on picture of the bolt, showing the extractor claw?



Here is a CZ bolt, wear on the extractor claw is shown rubbing off the bluing on the angled part closer to the rim, which is good telling me that this claw rides the extractor slot properly so that it can get in and bite on the casing rim.



Also, check out the first post here: https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=694797 it talks about a few issues with a CZ, but consider the claw angle modification he does by removing the flat surface of the claw, giving it a better bite on the rim.
 
I don't know if my previous experiences will help at all but here she goes...

What ammo? I've had certain batches of bulk ammo (1x was Blazer, the loose boxed 'non-CCI' stuff) not like to extract after firing but other ammo ran fine in the same gun the very next magazine!

I've also had issues with match ammo that was very waxy (forget the exact ammo) and gummed up the chamber after a couple hundred rounds like you have mentioned. I have a rag in my .22 range kit incase the ammo looks overly wax covered, I'll just wipe it a bit before I loaded it.

I'd also bring a cleaning rod to pop the empties out rather then prod with a knife...
 
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RabidM4U5 said:
Yeah, without having it in hand it's hard for me to say what might be going on, but I'm sure something must be off with the design/geometry of the extractor claw and/or the extractor slot in the breech. Does the claw come to a nice, sharp point where it should grab the rim? Does the angle of the slot ramp and the claw head look like a perfect match? See drawing, if the angles are off, the extractor claw could be pushed out away from the rim even though the slot was cut close to the chamber wall. I'm just suggesting possibilities to look for. If the claw is blued, where does the wear show up on the angled head of it? Can you possibly take a head on picture of the bolt, showing the extractor claw?



Here is a CZ bolt, wear on the extractor claw is shown rubbing off the bluing on the angled part closer to the rim, which is good telling me that this claw rides the extractor slot properly so that it can get in and bite on the casing rim.



Also, check out the first post here: https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=694797 it talks about a few issues with a CZ, but consider the claw angle modification he does by removing the flat surface of the claw, giving it a better bite on the rim.
Click to expand...

Well I got a new extractor and clips, and with the spring melt on it may be a while before I get to the range again. The old extractor seemed to be wearing evenly though. I had this exact issue with a Lakefield MK2 I used to own, a new extractor solved the issue. The new extractor has a beefier claw on it and is black, the original one was just bare metal.
 
sk8snwmx said:
I don't know if my previous experiences will help at all but here she goes...

What ammo? I've had certain batches of bulk ammo (1x was Blazer, the loose boxed 'non-CCI' stuff) not like to extract after firing but other ammo ran fine in the same gun the very next magazine!

I've also had issues with match ammo that was very waxy (forget the exact ammo) and gummed up the chamber after a couple hundred rounds like you have mentioned. I have a rag in my .22 range kit incase the ammo looks overly wax covered, I'll just wipe it a bit before I loaded it.

I'd also bring a cleaning rod to pop the empties out rather then prod with a knife...
Click to expand...

It did it with Winchester bulk (which ironically the gun shoots like a freaking lazer) and Sellier and Bellot, which also shoots very accurate. Aquila, Eley and Federal extract fine but aren't as accurate. Plus that Winchester stuff is dirt cheap.

I don't like putting a rod down the bore if I can help it, especially from the muzzle.
 
Ive had this problem with both my mark iis. Ive tried doubling up the spring as well which half worked. When its cold it still has failures to eject but goes away as the gun warms up. Only wax lubed bullets do it for me which is what all the good bullets use. Ive noticed the extractor slot in the breach has a scratch the looks to me like the extractor is able to twist while the bolt closes, possibly by being too thin of a piece of stamped metal for the groove in the bolt.

If you have a failre to eject the best way to clear it is to press a flat screwdriver against the extractor while you open the bolt it will extract the shell everytime.
 
Freefall said:
Ive had this problem with both my mark iis. Ive tried doubling up the spring as well which half worked. When its cold it still has failures to eject but goes away as the gun warms up. Only wax lubed bullets do it for me which is what all the good bullets use. Ive noticed the extractor slot in the breach has a scratch the looks to me like the extractor is able to twist while the bolt closes, possibly by being too thin of a piece of stamped metal for the groove in the bolt.

If you have a failre to eject the best way to clear it is to press a flat screwdriver against the extractor while you open the bolt it will extract the shell everytime.
Click to expand...

Funny mine shoots the wax lube bullets fine, it is the copper coated Winchester that jam it up really good. I like the idea of the screw driver, will have to try that if I still have issues.
 
I did the double spring clip on my mark 2 long time ago and works great ever since, it sometimes didn’t want to extract CCI sub sonics.
 
So an update, I took it to the range last weekend and it works better for sure, was still getting the same FTE with Winchester ammo once and a while, but cycling the bolt again usually extracted the case. All other ammo cycled fine, so I may just avoid the Winchester stuff in the future. The Winchester is 36 grain, all my other ammo is 40 so I have to adjust my sights for the 36 grain stuff as it shoots about an inch higher at 50 yards than the 40 grain shells.
 
Well, you've really only put a band-aid on the situation. Too bad I don't have my MKII anymore, I'd like to get a better idea of what is going on. Another thought that crossed my mind is something I've read about being done for custom CZ's with match barrels and tight chambers that deeply engrave the bullet. The gunsmith modded them to use dual extractors, replacing the shell holder on the left with another extractor claw. You'd probably have to file the left slot cut-out in the breech closer to the chamber wall, and do some tuning to get ejection reliable, but dual claws should pull everything out of your chamber without an issue. That's the best fix I can recommend without having it in hand to see the real issue with the single claw.
 
RabidM4U5 said:
Well, you've really only put a band-aid on the situation. Too bad I don't have my MKII anymore, I'd like to get a better idea of what is going on. Another thought that crossed my mind is something I've read about being done for custom CZ's with match barrels and tight chambers that deeply engrave the bullet. The gunsmith modded them to use dual extractors, replacing the shell holder on the left with another extractor claw. You'd probably have to file the left slot cut-out in the breech closer to the chamber wall, and do some tuning to get ejection reliable, but dual claws should pull everything out of your chamber without an issue. That's the best fix I can recommend without having it in hand to see the real issue with the single claw.
Click to expand...

Interesting, I have the other extractor, I should flip it over and try it on the left side, see how that works.
 
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