Weigh Sorting Brass

BCBRAD

BCBRAD

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I am getting ready for a 1000 yard competition.

In the 10 round event I plan on using a 260 Rem, Savage LRP with a Sightron optic.

The load is 42.54gn H4350, Federal 210M primer, Lapua 136L and Lapua brass.

Brass has been annealed, trimmed to length.....the next step is weigh sorting.

(all weights are measured with a FXi 120 scale) lightest is 171.18gn - heaviest 173.52gn.

Rarely two pieces weigh exactly the same, so what is a good variable hi to low?

Is it +/- half a grain , one grain or does it make a whole lot of difference?

With this load the rifle, with me at the controls, will typically produce 0.6-0.7 moa at 330 yards, with out weigh sorting the brass or using wind flags.
 
Compare case volume directly if you really want to know...

Weight sorting is a poor reference to case volume. I know, I know... everyone chats about it but I did my testing years ago and proved it to myself that it can be a false positive.

If this accuracy is with a factory pipe, you have pretty much hit its limits... especially if this is with a 10 shot string.

Jerry
 
^^^ It is a factory pipe.

Out of the 100 brass I have isolated 40 that fall in the +/- half a grain area, 172.00-172.99gn, 17 fall in the 173.00gn and up to 173.74gn, the remainder are 171.99gn and less.

With the forty brass , I will load those and run them across the LabRadar and sort velocities from there.

I'm trying to get all I can out of this platform.
 
Tune on target... you have the distance and you have a great powder scale. If the brass is of a quality manf and from the same lot, I doubt you will see any affective change on target even using cases that differ the most in mass. It is case volume and ductility that matter.

Even try another bullet...

Tune for the lowest vertical you can. Ideally 1/3 MOA or less at 300m. Hopefully, that will stabilise your horizontal spread...that is the best your barrel will shoot.

On average, I wouldn't expect a factory barrel to hold 1/2 MOA or better... can certainly happen but that is more luck then design.

Jerry
 
Don't change anything from your zero loads just for the match. I wouldn't go in with fresh annealed brass, fire it at least once, or twice and then set it up for the match.
Fresh annealed can have varying neck tension in my experience, and brass seems to perform better after neck tension normalizes.
 
Hitzy said:
Don't change anything from your zero loads just for the match. I wouldn't go in with fresh annealed brass, fire it at least once, or twice and then set it up for the match.
Fresh annealed can have varying neck tension in my experience, and brass seems to perform better after neck tension normalizes.
Click to expand...

yes , after the velocity sort those cases will be once fired from annealed, hopefully I'll get 20 or so out of the forty that I can use with confidence.
 
I have 1000 .308 Lapua cases weight sort to within 1 gr. These are all annealed, resized, cleaned , trimmed and weight sorted ready for loading. Sorting by volume might be the better way to do this, but who has time to check the volume and sort 1000+ cases?
For .223 cases that I also use to shoot long range I sort by .5 gr batches.
 
maynard said:
I have 1000 .308 Lapua cases weight sort to within 1 gr. These are all annealed, resized, cleaned , trimmed and weight sorted ready for loading. Sorting by volume might be the better way to do this, but who has time to check the volume and sort 1000+ cases?
For .223 cases that I also use to shoot long range I sort by .5 gr batches.
Click to expand...

I never sort brass but I currently only use PPU for my .223. Then again I am only reaching out to 500m so maybe I would see something if I was going out to 750 or 800m. I have several boxes of Lapua brass waiting but the PPU appear to be a long way from giving up.

I never used to sort bullets either but I started after doing some test measuring. The Hornady Match 68gr BTHP bullets were 0.8gr overall difference +0.3/-0.5gr. I don't sort Sierra 69gr MK or TMK. Test weighing of 50 of them was +/-0.1gr.

I guess everyone looks at different things searching for the grail.
 
Mystic Precision said:
Tune on target... you have the distance and you have a great powder scale. If the brass is of a quality manf and from the same lot, I doubt you will see any affective change on target even using cases that differ the most in mass. It is case volume and ductility that matter.

Even try another bullet...

Tune for the lowest vertical you can. Ideally 1/3 MOA or less at 300m. Hopefully, that will stabilise your horizontal spread...that is the best your barrel will shoot.

On average, I wouldn't expect a factory barrel to hold 1/2 MOA or better... can certainly happen but that is more luck then design.

Jerry
Click to expand...


This morning conditions were good. At 200m/219yards, 10 shots went into 0.5976 moa.

Vertical 0.750", Horizontal 1.250".

ES was 15 ft/s for that 10.

There is room to sort the few outliers.
 
What are you using for rests?

Seems like you have hit the limits of your barrel and this combo... tweak a tenth up or down to see if the vertical will shrink but the trend to be in the 2/3 MOA range seems to be holding.

I would try a Berger or Matrix, even a Sierra MK and see if that will tighten things up. Sometimes, the barrel just needs another bullet

Jerry
 
Mystic Precision said:
What are you using for rests?

Seems like you have hit the limits of your barrel and this combo... tweak a tenth up or down to see if the vertical will shrink but the trend to be in the 2/3 MOA range seems to be holding.

I would try a Berger or Matrix, even a Sierra MK and see if that will tighten things up. Sometimes, the barrel just needs another bullet

Jerry
Click to expand...

Thanks Jerry, I've tried Sierra 142 MK's, and Berger 140 Hybrids. The 136gn Lapua's seemed to be the best so far, they run ~2890 ft/s.

I use Quickload to develop the load. The other mentioned bullets do not hit the higher node like the Lapua's, and not as accurate.

I use a regular adjustable 3 point rest with a small sand bag in the cradle, the rear is a 'eared' sand bag (nothing special).

I have been practicing different holds and have seen improvement with light pressure on the rifle and the free hand on top of the scope, elbows planted.

Is it the rear bag causing the issues or am I just at the limit with this platform?


https://photos.google.com/share/AF1...?key=MW13U3dUQlNHWmxzN3BvQ3RiQ0k1Q2NBSGNfX2d3
 
I would want as little contact with the rifle as the rules allow.

My guess is that you have reached what the barrel will do but if you are really curious... I would back down to the lower node around 2700fps and see if the grouping is more accurate.

Jerry
 
Sounds to me you are fine tuning for the BL shoot if so see you there. Sorting brass 1 grain is fine enough and as always evry little bit helps. I'm not sure if I read it correctly but your free hand should not be touching the rifle in bench rest shooting. Most shooters bring it back to the rear bag or close some are bag squeezers depending on your set up. I practice at 300mtrs and us a multiple of 4 to caculate the approximate group size to 1000mtrs. 4 is closer to reality due to the difference in mirage.
 
OK, a 5 shot group with the Savage LRP 260 Rem yielded a 12.25" group at 1050 yards.

12.25" horizontal, 2.25" vertical.

Expected some horizontal due to the changing wind, but not that much.

I think my handloads are good, what do I need to upgrade my rests.....if this is where the problem lies.
 
With vertical that tight, you are most certainly loading and shooting well. That is 1/4 min vertical which is nothing to sneeze at.

You mentioned switching winds... do the ballistics calcs for your combo at distance and I bet you will be amazed at how much 1 mph will push your bullet around.

There really isn't anything that is immune to wind drift... you just need to drive into the center or hold for some steady air and "gun" the group

Jerry
 
Thanks Jerry....for the confidence in my handloads.

For the 10 shot group , disheartened by the 5 shot performance I switched to my light Dasher, 9+ lbs. ( a Benchmark barreled and properly bedded Tikka T3 in 6 Dasher) in the unlimited class, it posted a 12" group @1050 yds. I had two shots ,side by side, that opened it up, 7 ring.

Today, I'm thinking of upgrading my bench rests, any ideas before I hit the button?
 
Your groups are better than i would expect for a factory barrel.

Don't make any changes before the match.

No harm in weigh sorting the brass.

Sort in 1/2 grain pails and then combine appropriately to make 50 round boxes of ammo.

I take the odd ball low ones and heavy ones to make a box of "foulers".

The last time I did this it was with 1000 308 Lapua cases. I sorted them in .1 g increments.

I put them in 50 round boxes. When I ran out of 170.3 grn cases, with only 37 in the box. I filled the box with the next heaviest batch (170.4 gn). As I filled the boxes, lightest to heaviest, I numbered each box and then shoot them in that order, so that when I change boxes, mid-string, the cases are the same weight, or, at worst, 0.1 gn heavier.
 
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BCBRAD said:
Thanks Jerry....for the confidence in my handloads.

For the 10 shot group , disheartened by the 5 shot performance I switched to my light Dasher, 9+ lbs. ( a Benchmark barreled and properly bedded Tikka T3 in 6 Dasher) in the unlimited class, it posted a 12" group @1050 yds. I had two shots ,side by side, that opened it up, 7 ring.

Today, I'm thinking of upgrading my bench rests, any ideas before I hit the button?
Click to expand...

My suggestion is come out and do some shooting in F class. There is likely nothing wrong with your gear or rests cause you would have already seen the problems testing at 300m. I would guess that you are in the 1" range at 300m?

I would be happy to discuss rests, barrels and components but the big issue here is WIND READING...

consider your optics, rifle scope and spotting scope.... how comfy are you at reading flags and mirage? This is where F class really helps cause you get feedback on paper and that can be quite shocking to see the bullet land vs where you thought it should land.

Kamloops now goes to 900yds

I spend alot of time and money to find optics that let me see the air/mirage. That has let me see the subtle changes that push a bullet out... put me on the podium a bunch of times now that I have a better handle of what I see vs where I should aim. No where near perfect but it has upped my game substantially.

If you, your rifle and load are shooting in the 1/4 to 1/3 min range at 300m and you can verify it at 600m, the gear is not the problem

Bullets, maybe... Wind, DEFINITELY...

Jerry

The Dasher is very sensitive to wind gusts and the "effective" change of a 2mph gust can easily push you a foot at the K. Those 2 shots in the 7 are a clear indication that you got caught in a wind change and didn't adjust for it.
 
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