what does a 6.5 creedmore do that a 6.5 x 55 doesn't?

[prevost12]

You probably aren't aware they already make 155 & 160gr 6.5VLD pills right? And skinny bullets handle wind better?
Newbs...

I’m aware. Do you know why they don’t make a 150-170gr 25 cal bullet? Do you know what the Overturning Moment is?

It’s like playing chess with a Pigeon. You can be as good at the game as you want, but the bird is still going to sh*t all over the board and strut around like it won...

 

[Hitzy]

I’m aware. Do you know why they don’t make a 150-170gr 25 cal bullet? Do you know what the Overturning Moment is?

It’s like playing chess with a Pigeon. You can be as good at the game as you want, but the bird is still going to sh*t all over the board and strut around like it won...

Uh huh, no factory cartridge with a fast enough twist.
Stick a 150gr 25cal in a shorter 308Win case, give it a 1/7 twist, call it the 25CM and it will edge the 6.5CM and be a huge success.

And I was too slow...Wildcat Bullets has been making 156gr 25cal VLD's for a decade or more already. BC's in the 700's...damn.

 

[Lead hammer]

Or just eat barrels faster.

 

[Gatehouse]

So it's experienced hunters and target shooters buying all the "race to the bottom" Savage Axis, 770's etc? Not means to the sport?

“Not means to the sport?”

What does that mean?

 

[Hitzy]

“Not means to the sport?”

What does that mean?

Newbs to the sport.... phone autocorrect lol.

 

[Gatehouse]

So it's experienced hunters and target shooters buying all the "race to the bottom" Savage Axis, 770's etc? Not newbs to the sport?

I think it's a mistake to categorize all inexpensive rifle buyers as newbs. There has been plenty of experienced shooters right here on CGN that pick up one of these rifles for various reasons. I'm not sure what this has to do with the CM though.

 

[Mr. Friendly]

is the 6.5CM better than the 6.5 Swede, or visa versa? no.

why is the 6.5CM such a success? because it's new/flashy and different. everyone loves new/flashy and it stands out as different because it is short action.

this conversation literally comes down to the same points of the .308 vs the .30-06. they do the pretty much the same thing until you want to push heavier bullets.

 

[WeatherdoG]

is the 6.5CM better than the 6.5 Swede, or visa versa? no.

why is the 6.5CM such a success? because it's new/flashy and different. everyone loves new/flashy and it stands out as different because it is short action.

this conversation literally comes down to the same points of the .308 vs the .30-06. they do the pretty much the same thing until you want to push heavier bullets.

308 is all marketing hype, in 10 years it will be dead. The 100 year old 30-06 is all anyone would ever want in a .30, with hand loads you can push the same sized bullet faster and farther.

 

[Candocad]

It fits .....not in a short or long action...but in the mind of the person being advertised and marketed too...the same guy that needs a shiny new car in the driveway every three years....or two more feet on the boat.

Cartridge development peaked years ago. Deer and Elk don't exude Kevlar. Most of us would benefit from more fitness or time scouting, than any real world difference between a teen age caliber vs a century old caliber.

This is the most accurate answer, it captures everything you need to know on the matter.

Candocad.

 

[rral22]

Just the opposite, actually. Nobody knew they wanted a fax machine, a cell phone, an automobile until it was offered to them and they realized that someone had designed something that made sense to them.

But you missed the actual important part of the sentence - I think it would include a few factors, chief among them giving the people what they want

Once again, marketing hype alone won't make a cartridge successful.

You're making false analogies to save a dying argument, and you were also the one who said "giving the people what they want, even if they don't know they want it before it was introduced." Now you're changing to "giving them what they want". You can't play both sides of that argument.

The false analogy lies in the fat that fax machines didn't exist before they were invented; they were a genuine new device. The 6.5 cartridges have been around for 100 years. Cell phones were a new invention. Automobiles looked really good to people on horses. But rifle cartridges have been around so long, with so many variations that cover so many needs and circumstances already, that the only way to get a "new" one is to convince people that there is some sort of difference that makes the new one better in some way (marketing marginal or even imaginary "improvements"). And THAT sort of marketing effort is completely evident in all the fax machines, cell phones, and automobiles that are being sold to fanboys (and it's easy to see the Apple or Ford fanboys everywhere) who have swallowed the marketing hype to the point they actually believe there's real advantages to say, Ford over GM, or Apple over Android. The fact that all those brands exist side by side is proof there really is no difference except marketing to fans. Otherwise, we would ALL be using the truly good ones, whatever they were.

The trouble with fans is that they have come to truly believe the marketing hype. I don't know who it was that discovered water, but it wasn't a fish.

 

[Gatehouse]

You're making false analogies to save a dying argument, and you were also the one who said "giving the people what they want, even if they don't know they want it before it was introduced." Now you're changing to "giving them what they want". You can't play both sides of that argument.

I’m not changing anything. Just making it easier for you to comprehend.

People want something - give it to them

Or

Introduce a previously unknown to them product that has desirable features that they want.

In both cases you are giving people what they want.

The false analogy lies in the fat that fax machines didn't exist before they were invented; they were a genuine new device. The 6.5 cartridges have been around for 100 years. Cell phones were a new invention. Automobiles looked really good to people on horses. But rifle cartridges have been around so long, with so many variations that cover so many needs and circumstances already, that the only way to get a "new" one is to convince people that there is some sort of difference that makes the new one better in some way (marketing marginal or even imaginary "improvements"). And THAT sort of marketing effort is completely evident in all the fax machines, cell phones, and automobiles that are being sold to fanboys (and it's easy to see the Apple or Ford fanboys everywhere) who have swallowed the marketing hype to the point they actually believe there's real advantages to say, Ford over GM, or Apple over Android. The fact that all those brands exist side by side is proof there really is no difference except marketing to fans. Otherwise, we would ALL be using the truly good ones, whatever they were.

The trouble with fans is that they have come to truly believe the marketing hype. I don't know who it was that discovered water, but it wasn't a fish.

And ice cream has been around for hundreds of years but they keep making new flavours that people buy because they enjoy. But guess what? Despite equal marketing, not all these flavours remain on Ben and Jerry’s regular line up, because some are more desirable than others.

All new cartridges get hyped. Marketing will only take you so far. If marketing alone was the only criteria for success we would all be using RUM's, WSSM's and of course Weatherby's.

 

[rral22]

Introduce a previously unknown to them product that has desirable features that they want.

In both cases you are giving people what they want.

How can you argue that people can want something that has features they want, if they don't know they even want it (Previously unknown)?

You have a complete failure to understand that marketing is exactly what is used by marketers to make you aware of "previously unknown" products, and then they use it to make you want its "desirable features". If you're completely oblivious to that process, there is no point in continuing the discussion.

I will end by just saying you are the ideal "consumer" that marketers dream about. You actually believe that you had all these ideas about "previously unknown products with desirable features" all on your own, and then someone conveniently invented just what you didn't know you wanted, with all the features you didn't know you needed. A marketing wet dream.

 

[viallet]

Can't we all just agree that the 6.5CM are inherently magical, capable of autonomous flight correction beyond the horizon, accelerate instantaneously at terminal to produce the near mythical stopping power required when hunting unicorns? They are my go to unicorn and chimera hunting rounds.

The Swedes are clearly already established for dragons.

 

[Hitzy]

I'd bet 90% of 6.5CM owners on CGN haven't shot it past 100m anyway, and all the experience they have with it's capabilities are from reading online forums and paid advertising lol.

 

[chuck nelson]

I'd bet 90% of 6.5CM owners on CGN haven't shot it past 100m anyway, and all the experience they have with it's capabilities are from reading online forums and paid advertising lol.

You really need to see the west.

 

[prevost12]

I'd bet 90% of 6.5CM owners on CGN haven't shot it past 100m anyway, and all the experience they have with it's capabilities are from reading online forums and paid advertising lol.

Here’s a picture from my reloading room. My opinions are based on literally thousands of rounds through several .264 cartridges at ranges that certainly exceed 100 yds. Can you honestly say the same?

 

[Hitzy]

Here’s a picture from my reloading room. My opinions are based on literally thousands of rounds through several .264 cartridges at ranges that certainly exceed 100 yds. Can you honestly say the same?

1000 a year at least in 6.5x55 at various ranges, about half my rifles are iron sight target types in that chambering which I find more fun and challenging. I hunt with 6.5x55 as well.
1500 308 a year at least.
500 7mm minimum.
Enough 223 to make me puke.
Few hundred 243.
1000 30'06 minimum.
8mm/9.3/30-30 100 each a year, for fun only.
All handloads, zero factory ammo.
Probably forgetting a bunch, not counting rimfire obviously.

 

[prevost12]

And how about the creedmoor? You must have thousands of rounds through various rifles I’m assuming based on how strongly you’re willing to condemn it?

 

[Hitzy]

And how about the creedmoor? You must have thousands of rounds through various rifles I’m assuming based on how strongly you’re willing to condemn it?

It's a new purchase, not even broken in yet lol.
Opinion so far is it underwhelming, I've been shooting 6.5x55 for 20 years, it's more forgiving in powder selection and velocity, I can get ES down to single digits with 6.5x55, 308, 7mm, 6.5CM I hit pressure quickly developing loads and best ES so far is 35fps. It's much more finicky then I expected.
As for how 6.5 pills perform, they perform well in the 6.5x55. I don't buy into the case design magic bs some of you do...sorry lol.

 

[Lead hammer]

Lots of people can get down to single digits reloading. Like you said its the 6.5 not the case that really matters, yet you claim your x55 has magic ES capabilities? I'm wondering why this thread is not locked as it's useless now to the OP at this point.