.338 Federal vs. .358 Win

Why not? said:
An aside that applies not only to the two hunting cartridges being discussed, but all big game hunting situations. Why would anyone want to sight in a hunting rifle dead on at 100 yards, when that same rifle shoots flat enough to be sighted in for 200 yards without the bullet ever being more than three inches high anywhere between those two distances?

A rifle sighted in dead on at 100 is low at every point beyond that distance.

Have zero experience with the 338 Federal, but having seen several tons of really big game killed using the 358 Win with 250 gr Speer spitzers at ranges considerably beyound 200 yards, I have no doubt the Fed would be just as effective.

Ted
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Fair question, I guess it depends what kind of bush you hunt in. If you found yourself in country with a lot of thick woods where most of your shooting was through bush and at 30 yards, where you do have to shoot through bush you may be more concerned with not hitting branches and stuff then long shots. If you are shooting more commonly at 200 yards then it makes sense to be sighted in further, but then why bother with the 358? Better rounds for that distance/style hunting. Guessing at a 2100fps mv with a 250, that leaves him about 1750fps at 200 yards is why I say that. Not saying its bad, just saying there is better.

Im gonna guess with your 200 yard zero you'd be about 4" high at 100 yards (guess on your ballistics).

Do you (or your friend with that .358) aim about 4" low for 100 yards usually? What is the aprox muzzle velocity with the 250 speers?
 
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cody c said:
Fair question, I guess it depends what kind of bush you hunt in. If you found yourself in country with a lot of thick woods where most of your shooting was through bush and at 30 yards, where you do have to shoot through bush you may be more concerned with not hitting branches and stuff then long shots. If you are shooting more commonly at 200 yards then it makes sense to be sighted in further, but then why bother with the 358? Better rounds for that distance/style hunting. Guessing at a 2100fps mv with a 250, that leaves him about 1750fps at 200 yards is why I say that. Not saying its bad, just saying there is better.

Im gonna guess with your 200 yard zero you'd be about 4" high at 100 yards (guess on your ballistics).

Do you (or your friend with that .358) aim about 4" low for 100 yards usually? What is the aprox muzzle velocity with the 250 speers?
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You are way off with those numbers...

With the .358 and 250 Partitions I get 2400 fps... that equates to 2" high at 100 and 2" low at 200... surprising, eh!?!?!?

Zeroed at 200, you are never more than 3" high or low from the muzzle to 240 yards.
 
hoytcanon said:
You are way off with those numbers...

With the .358 and 250 Partitions I get 2400 fps... that equates to 2" high at 100 and 2" low at 200... surprising, eh!?!?!?

Zeroed at 200, you are never more than 3" high or low from the muzzle to 240 yards.
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Ok, I will admit I am surprised. I would say that seems more like 350 RM performance, but with reloads who's to say...

I believe the .358 was probably designed a bit more around lever actions than say the 350 RM, 338 fed or 35 whelan, as per the lower rated pressure.

Whats the details of the rifle your using for that velocity?

the ballistics calc says 200 grain .358 win shells are 2490 fps, so in comparison your doing pretty well. (20%+ better)
 
cody c said:
Ok, I will admit I am surprised. I would say that seems more like 350 RM performance, but with reloads who's to say...

I believe the .358 was probably designed a bit more around lever actions than say the 350 RM, 338 fed or 35 whelan, as per the lower rated pressure.

Whats the details of the rifle your using for that velocity?

the ballistics calc says 200 grain .358 win shells are 2490 fps, so in comparison your doing pretty well. (20%+ better)
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The Hornady manual has 200 grain @ 2700 and 250 @ 2400... and as per usual they are leaving something in the tank. The 350 RM has another 200-250 on those numbers... heck, my .405 Win is 2.5" high at 100 and 2.5" low at 200, and that is with 300 grain SP's.
 
cody c said:
Fair question, I guess it depends what kind of bush you hunt in. If you found yourself in country with a lot of thick woods where most of your shooting was through bush and at 30 yards, where you do have to shoot through bush you may be more concerned with not hitting branches and stuff then long shots. If you are shooting more commonly at 200 yards then it makes sense to be sighted in further, but then why bother with the 358? Better rounds for that distance/style hunting. Guessing at a 2100fps mv with a 250, that leaves him about 1750fps at 200 yards is why I say that. Not saying its bad, just saying there is better.

Im gonna guess with your 200 yard zero you'd be about 4" high at 100 yards (guess on your ballistics).

Do you (or your friend with that .358) aim about 4" low for 100 yards usually? What is the aprox muzzle velocity with the 250 speers?
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That's the problem with guessing rather than actually using a cartridge. The 358 Win routinely gets 250 gr bullets well beyond 2300 fps.

When shooting at from 100 to around 220 yards we hold dead on. The bullet will hit well within the vital heart-lung area on any big game.

cody c said:
I believe the .358 was probably designed a bit more around lever actions than say the 350 RM, 338 fed or 35 whelan, as per the lower rated pressure.
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The 358 was produced in the Model 88 and 100 Winchester rifles, both of which were chambered for the high pressure 243 and 308 Winchester cartridges, so pressure was not a concern.

It was also produced in the Model 70 Winchester bolt action, one of which I used for a while. Sold it to a member here who lives and uses it in La Belle Province every fall for moose and deer. :)

Ted
 
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GMC403 said:
This explanation can be used with regard to sectional density as well, correct?

Bullet profile would also play a role in BC, and the tables could turn if comparing different bullet types.
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Yes. Sectional density is bullet weight divided by cross sectional area squared. SD=mass/(Area^2)

With the same weight, a smaller caliber will always have higher SD.

Aa for BCs changing, typically heavier bullets have higher BCs but as you say the shape is critical. A 225gr accubond has a bc of 0.550, while a 225gr tsx is only 0.386. The accubond is also longer than the all copper tsx.
 
Mr. Friendly said:
Suther, if I understand BC correctly, the bullets with same weights but one has a higher BC, like your 225gr example, is due to the Accubond being a longer bullet?
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Its more than just length. It's the overall shape. Longer bullets tend to be more streamlined, so they tend to have higher BCs but it's not a concrete rule. It would be very possible to make a long bullet without a really high bc if you didn't design it properly. Certain features can have large impacts on bc, flat noses and round noses like you'd find in a lever gun ect hurt BCs for instance, while a boat tail generally increases BCs.
 
35 caliber 310gr RN SN from my 20" barrel 358 Winchester BLR achieves 2100 fps muzzle speed. For the 338 Federal and same barrel length probably around 2200 fps for the 300gr.
 
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Slamfire said:
35 caliber 310gr RN SN from my 20" barrel 358 Winchester BLR achieves 2100 fps muzzle speed. For the 338 Federal and same barrel length probably around 2200 fps for the 300gr.
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You think the federal would be faster than the 358, even though the bullet is more than likely longer, thus taking up more powder space in the cartridge? Interesting.
 
Following with interest-- simply because i think i will step down from 9.3x62 into the 338federal/358 win range, mostly thinkin 338 fed because ofthe Tikka factor....
will read all replies in time.
cheers
 
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