fat tony
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
There was a lurid horror movie about a German ghost commerce raider sailing around ramming cruise ships, etc. It was a fun silly movie. Death Ship iirc starring George Kennedy.
Picture of the day
- Thread starter jwhc
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It was a German thing.
This one cut quite a swath , very brazen actually.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_auxiliary_cruiser_Atlantis
Grizz
- Location
- Ford Nation
It was a German thing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_auxiliary_cruiser_Atlantis
Grizz
Back when I was in high school I read a paper back book that I bought at a yard sale about the Raider Atlantis. That was four decades or so ago. It was a good read, it was written by one of the Officer's or Crew Member's using their memoirs.
fat tony
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
I read the Admiralstab in WWI were trying to emulate the example set by the CSS Alabama, until WWI it was the most successful commerce raider ever known.
However the RN had Room 40.
However the RN had Room 40.
It was a German thing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_auxiliary_cruiser_Atlantis
Grizz
Mostly a German thing. The Japanese gave it a go, but it failed almost comically.
The Aikoku Maru. A converted passenger/cargo ship turned armed merchantman. Paired up with the similarly converted Hokoku Maru in mid 1941, were sent off to the Allied shipping in the South Pacific and Indian ocean, and replenish submarines as a bit of a side job.
After a year, the two ships had accounted for 5 ships sunk our captured between them, totaling 31,303 tons. Baiscally the raider equivalent of seal-clubbing, taking down small, obsolete, merchantmen (2 American flagged, a Dutch flagged, a British flagged, and a New Zealand flagged vessel).
And then they came up against the brave Dutch armed merchantman Ondina, and her escort Corvette the from His Majesty's Royal Indian Navy, the Bengal, which was actually more poorly armed than the Ondina.
The Bengal bravely tried to chase off the Japanese attackers, but her single 3 inch gun had absolutely no effect. The Ondina, only able to muster a 12 knot top speed, was unable to take advantage of the interference to escape, so turned and engaged the Japanese, with her single 4 inch gun.
The fight that ensue was... Unique...
The Bengal was unable to score any effective hits, however the Ondina managed a lucky shot against the rear torpedo launcher of the Hokoku Maru, causing a massive explosion and fire, which would end up in the loss of the ship. The Ondina took numerous hits, and was herself set on fire, even taking two torpedo hits. Luckily, she was running without cargo, and the holds that were torpedoed were able to be isolated, preventing general flooding of the ship. The Ondina was largely crewed by impressed Chinese sailors, who panicked as soon as the fight began, refused to take part in even basic damage control, and headed for the lifeboats at the first opportunity, leaving the ship in the hands of a few Dutch and British sailors.
After the Bengal expended all her ammunition, she dropped a smokescreen and fled, leaving the Ondina (who was assumed to be mortally stricken) and her crew to the fates. The Ondina dropped smoke buoys and tried to escape, but with a 12 knot top speed, this was impossible. The Aikoku continued firing, causing some more damage, and Captain W. Horsman of the Ondina eventually ordered the white flag raised and the crew to abandon ship. The Aikoku kept firing after the white flag had been raised, killing Captain Horsman, and even strafed the lifeboats, killing one sailor and wounding another.
The Aikoku fired a final torpedo at the Ondina, and missed, then turned and left, assuming the ship was doomed.
The Ondina's crew rallied their lifeboats, a small party re-boarded their abandoned, burning, listing, but apparently unwilling to sink ship, put out a few small fires, determined the engines were undamaged, and managed after some time to convince the remaining crew (including Chinese) that they were safer on the Ondina than in the small lifeboats. They effected repairs and managed to return to port, much to everyone's surprise, as her escort, the Bengal, had reported her sunk and lost.
The Ondina would survive the war and not be scrapped until 1959.
This is the only pic I could find of her, taken in 1943.
Dark Alley Dan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
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Weird. Somehow I had it in my head that the English had done it as well. Apologies for the misinformation.
The RN did have Tommy Fuller, though. See post 15208.
The RN did have Tommy Fuller, though. See post 15208.
The best commerce raiders of all were the US Submarine Fleet in the Pacific during WW2. An unsung group that absolutely crippled Japan's merchant fleet almost singlehandedly. Their success was not even made public during the war due to the fact the US Navy wanted to give the Japanese no information they could use. Check out the tonnage they destroyed especially in the last two years of the war.
They'd have done a lot better if they didn't have to deal with defective torpedoes.
Grizz
The Vietnam Memorial Wall.
A little history most people will never know.
Interesting Veterans Statistics off the Vietnam Memorial Wall.
There are 58,267 names now listed on that polished black wall, including those added in 2010.
The names are arranged in the order in which they were taken from us by date and within each date the names are alphabetized. It is hard to believe it is 61 years since the first casualty.
The first known casualty was Richard B. Fitzgibbon, of North Weymouth, Mass. Listed by the U.S. Department of Defense as having been killed on June 8, 1956. His name is listed on the Wall with that of his son, Marine Corps LCpl Richard B. Fitzgibbon III, who was killed on Sept. 7, 1965.
There are three sets of fathers and sons on the Wall.
39,996 on the Wall were just 22 or younger.
8,283 were just 19 years old.
The largest age group, 33,103 were 18 years old.
12 soldiers on the Wall were 17 years old.
5 soldiers on the Wall were 16 years old.
One soldier, PFC Dan Bullock was 15 years old.
997 soldiers were killed on their first day in Vietnam.
1,448 soldiers were killed on their last day in Vietnam.
31 sets of brothers are on the Wall.
Thirty one sets of parents lost two of their sons.
54 soldiers attended Thomas Edison High School in Philadelphia. I wonder why so many from one school?
8 Women are on the Wall, Nursing the wounded.
244 soldiers were awarded the Medal of Honor during the Vietnam War; 153 of them are on the Wall
Beallsville, Ohio with a population of 475 lost 6 of her sons.
West Virginia had the highest casualty rate per capita in the nation.
There are 711 West Virginians on the Wall.
The Marines of Morenci - They led some of the scrappiest high school football and basketball teams that the little Arizona copper town of
Morenci (pop 5,058) had ever known and cheered. They enjoyed roaring beer busts. In quieter moments, they rode horses along the Coronado Trail, stalked deer in the Apache National Forest. And in the patriotic camaraderie typical of Morenci's mining families, the nine graduates of Morenci High enlisted as a group in the Marine Corps. Their service began on Independence Day, 1966. Only 3 returned home.
The Buddies of Midvale - LeRoy Tafoya, Jimmy Martinez, Tom Gonzales were all boyhood friends and lived on three consecutive streets in Midvale, Utah on Fifth, Sixth and Seventh avenues. They lived only a few yards apart. They played ball at the adjacent sandlot ball field. And they all went to Vietnam. In a span of 16 dark days in late 1967, all three would be killed. LeRoy was killed on Wednesday, Nov. 22, the fourth anniversary of John F. Kennedy's assassination. Jimmy died less than 24 hours later on Thanksgiving Day. Tom was shot dead assaulting the enemy on Dec. 7, Pearl Harbor Remembrance Day.
The most casualty deaths for a single day was on January 31, 1968 ~ 245 deaths.
The most casualty deaths for a single month was May 1968 - 2,415 casualties were incurred.
For most Americans who read this they will only see the numbers that the Vietnam War created. To those of us who survived the war, and to
the families of those who did not, we see the faces, we feel the pain that these numbers created. We are, until we too pass away, haunted with these numbers, because they were our friends, fathers, Husbands, wives, sons and daughters There are no noble wars, just noble warriors.
A little history most people will never know.
Interesting Veterans Statistics off the Vietnam Memorial Wall.
There are 58,267 names now listed on that polished black wall, including those added in 2010.
The names are arranged in the order in which they were taken from us by date and within each date the names are alphabetized. It is hard to believe it is 61 years since the first casualty.
The first known casualty was Richard B. Fitzgibbon, of North Weymouth, Mass. Listed by the U.S. Department of Defense as having been killed on June 8, 1956. His name is listed on the Wall with that of his son, Marine Corps LCpl Richard B. Fitzgibbon III, who was killed on Sept. 7, 1965.
There are three sets of fathers and sons on the Wall.
39,996 on the Wall were just 22 or younger.
8,283 were just 19 years old.
The largest age group, 33,103 were 18 years old.
12 soldiers on the Wall were 17 years old.
5 soldiers on the Wall were 16 years old.
One soldier, PFC Dan Bullock was 15 years old.
997 soldiers were killed on their first day in Vietnam.
1,448 soldiers were killed on their last day in Vietnam.
31 sets of brothers are on the Wall.
Thirty one sets of parents lost two of their sons.
54 soldiers attended Thomas Edison High School in Philadelphia. I wonder why so many from one school?
8 Women are on the Wall, Nursing the wounded.
244 soldiers were awarded the Medal of Honor during the Vietnam War; 153 of them are on the Wall
Beallsville, Ohio with a population of 475 lost 6 of her sons.
West Virginia had the highest casualty rate per capita in the nation.
There are 711 West Virginians on the Wall.
The Marines of Morenci - They led some of the scrappiest high school football and basketball teams that the little Arizona copper town of
Morenci (pop 5,058) had ever known and cheered. They enjoyed roaring beer busts. In quieter moments, they rode horses along the Coronado Trail, stalked deer in the Apache National Forest. And in the patriotic camaraderie typical of Morenci's mining families, the nine graduates of Morenci High enlisted as a group in the Marine Corps. Their service began on Independence Day, 1966. Only 3 returned home.
The Buddies of Midvale - LeRoy Tafoya, Jimmy Martinez, Tom Gonzales were all boyhood friends and lived on three consecutive streets in Midvale, Utah on Fifth, Sixth and Seventh avenues. They lived only a few yards apart. They played ball at the adjacent sandlot ball field. And they all went to Vietnam. In a span of 16 dark days in late 1967, all three would be killed. LeRoy was killed on Wednesday, Nov. 22, the fourth anniversary of John F. Kennedy's assassination. Jimmy died less than 24 hours later on Thanksgiving Day. Tom was shot dead assaulting the enemy on Dec. 7, Pearl Harbor Remembrance Day.
The most casualty deaths for a single day was on January 31, 1968 ~ 245 deaths.
The most casualty deaths for a single month was May 1968 - 2,415 casualties were incurred.
For most Americans who read this they will only see the numbers that the Vietnam War created. To those of us who survived the war, and to
the families of those who did not, we see the faces, we feel the pain that these numbers created. We are, until we too pass away, haunted with these numbers, because they were our friends, fathers, Husbands, wives, sons and daughters There are no noble wars, just noble warriors.
This Tom Fuller ?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_G._Fuller
The RN didn't have him, the RCN did. He is a Canadian Naval legend my boy.
They'd have done a lot better if they didn't have to deal with defective torpedoes.
Keeping in mind that (1) US Navy submarine torpedo production didn't really ramp up until 1943, and by late summer 1943, the problems with the Mk 14 torpedo had been rectified, and (2) US Navy submarine production (over 200 hulls) also grew as the war went on. Taking that into account, and comparing total numbers of torpedoes fired (about 14,750) to the numbers of Japanese ships sunk by subs (almost 1,400), you find that the early problems probably didn't account for much over the course of the war. And interestingly, and probably due in part to the wartime experience the crews gained, US Navy submarines actually fired more torpedoes per attack in the later years of the war than they did earlier on.
"54 soldiers attended Thomas Edison High School in Philadelphia. I wonder why so many from one school?"
If current enrollment figures is indicative of enrollment in 1960's..... There were few students at the time that were middle class or better.
Military service paid some bills and promised a better education. Not exactly hippy poster children.
Enrollment
Number
Thomas Edison High School Enrollment: Total Enrollment: 1334
Ethnicity
African American: 22%
Latino: 75.4%
White: 1.1%
Asian: 0.4%
American Indian: 0.1%
Other: 1% [9]
If current enrollment figures is indicative of enrollment in 1960's..... There were few students at the time that were middle class or better.
Military service paid some bills and promised a better education. Not exactly hippy poster children.
Enrollment
Number
Thomas Edison High School Enrollment: Total Enrollment: 1334
Ethnicity
African American: 22%
Latino: 75.4%
White: 1.1%
Asian: 0.4%
American Indian: 0.1%
Other: 1% [9]
Bubba Yugga
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Midwestern Ontario
January 31st 1968 was the start of the Tet Offensive, probably explaining the 245 in one day.
True, I was just in Pearl Harbour and looked at he History of both the USS Bowfin a 70 man fleet sub and the USS Missouri with 2700 men. During the war the Bowfin did far more damage to the Japanese than the Missouri did. This is in no way intended to denegrate the Missouri and her crews just a simple fact of the changing nature of naval warfare during WW2.
A difficult comparison to make. USS Bowfin was commissioned in May 1943 and was already conducting her first war patrol by August 1943. USS Missouri was not commissioned until June 1944 and didn't join the war until January 1945. The battleship was nevertheless present during key moments of the Okinawa campaign.
Just indicative of the whole Vietnam war. A lot of these kids were drafted. The well to do got college deferments and the influential had enough drag to keep their sons out of Vietnam. In general the poor and uneducated bore the burden of supplying manpower for the meatgrinder.
Dark Alley Dan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Darkest Edmonton
He is indisputably a Canadian naval legend, as per my original post. Note, however, that while he served in the Adriatic (where he was at his most gloriously piratical) he was in the employ of His Majesty's Royal Navy. From Wikipedia:
fat tony
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Due to (?) the RN submarine squadrons sent to the Pacific theatre are dismissed as inconsequenial if not completely ignored in the "Time- Life" narrative. Imo the British (Commonwealth) Pacific Fleet was not inconsequential. I politely await the responses of the American narrative supporters wrt the non existant Commonwealth fleet.
The USN submarine service was thrilled to get two squadrons of friendly subs which could go in shallow areas where many of the big US Fleet class submarines could not go.
The USN submarine service was thrilled to get two squadrons of friendly subs which could go in shallow areas where many of the big US Fleet class submarines could not go.
