Can 454 casull brass be trimmed to function as 45 colt?

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Ridersfan

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So, I understand that you can fire 45 colt ammo from a 454 casull firearm without any modifications... the cases should be reasonably similar. (I currently own no 454 casull anything, brass or firearms)

Question being, can I trim 454 casull brass to 45 colt length and fire it from my 45 colt? This would be from an 1892 clone rifle that can actually handle 454 casull pressures, not my revolver.

Reason being, that in Saskatchewan, they for some infinite wisdom reasoning, decided that I can no longer use my 45 colt for big game. I don't want it for a moose or elk, I want it for a white tail deer. 150 pounder would be large, usually a doe. So I'm thinking, alright... fire it out of a 454 casull case then at the same +P recipe that I'd have a 45 colt loaded to, trimmed to 45 colt length... it will be headstamped 454 casull. Legal...ish. I could have had my rifle rechambered to 454 casull. I should pass any field inspection by a CO.

It would not be an inhumane or inaccurate shot, 45 colt has been taking deer (and larger) for a century now.
 
When I read the title, I was prepared to respond "Yes. And you can convert gold into lead, too."

But I see you have a conniving devious reason for the question.

My answer, is "I thinks so. Make a few and try them."

It would not surprise me to find that the Casull brass is thicker in the web, with less capacity than a 45 Colt when cut down compared to a real 45 Colt, so maybe a bit less powder is called for.

Good luck.
 
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I would say your skating on thin ice legally.

There's no reason the 454 Casull case can't be cut down to feed and chamber in your rifle. Still, once it's cut down it becomes a 45 Colt case. Doesn't matter what it started life as.

Even if the charges are dropped, if you're stopped, likely your rifle/ammo will be seized, stored in questionable conditions and maybe even lawyer/court costs to be paid. Is it worth it?????

I don't question the ability of the 45 Colt when loaded to the pressures your rifle is capable of handling as to its ability to cleanly take Deer. My suggestion is to either switch to a 44 magnum or as you mentioned, get it rechambered 454 Casull and so marked on the barrel. You still may have to cut back the cases to feed though because your rifle is set up for a shorter cartridge.


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bearhunter said:
I would say your skating on thin ice legally.

There's no reason the 454 Casull case can't be cut down to feed and chamber in your rifle. Still, once it's cut down it becomes a 45 Colt case. Doesn't matter what it started life as.
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Don't take my opinion as legal advice but I would have to disagree with bearhunturer. The 454 Casull case is structurally designed to withstand significantly higher pressures than the 45 colt and trimming it 2.5 mm does not inherently make it a 45 colt case irregardless of what kind of gun its shot out of.
 
With the right process you can also turn diamonds back into coal...

J/k, but I think you're doing it backward as far as the law goes. You could shoot a 45LC from a 454 rifle and that would be legal, but shooting anything from a 45LC firearm wouldn't be. You'd have to check Sask hunting regulation, but usually most regulation go after the firearm, not the ammo. After all, you could use a 45LC load in a 454 casull firearm/case.

From a technical POV, then yeah, like ganderite says, not much harm in trying it, maybe start a tiny bit low on the powder load. Fairly certain it'll work just fine.
 
I reload 45 colt all the time. One thing I found out is starline brass are basicly the same brass just trimmed down and stamped for the caliber.so with that reasoning you should be able to use 454 brass. I load it really hot for my model 92 and doesn't show signs of overpressure.
 
apu said:
Don't take my opinion as legal advice but I would have to disagree with bearhunturer. The 454 Casull case is structurally designed to withstand significantly higher pressures than the 45 colt and trimming it 2.5 mm does not inherently make it a 45 colt case irregardless of what kind of gun its shot out of.
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That has nothing to do with legality. If the rifles is stamped 45 Colt and the chamber won't accept an uncut 454 Casull round it's still a 45 colt.

TURF THE LIBERALS IN 2019

Liberals really like POOR people, they're making more of them every day

If you can't vote CPC, stay at home in protest.
 
bearhunter said:
That has nothing to do with legality. If the rifles is stamped 45 Colt and the chamber won't accept an uncut 454 Casull round it's still a 45 colt.
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I appreciate your position but respectfully remain in disagreement that trimming a 454 Casull case a couple of mm makes the case inherently a 45 colt, but hey that is ok and I appreciate I could be very mistaken. That is why I prefaced by original comment directed at the OP to not misconstrue my opinion as anything other than that.
 
apu said:
I appreciate your position but respectfully remain in disagreement that trimming a 454 Casull case a couple of mm makes the case inherently a 45 colt, but hey that is ok and I appreciate I could be very mistaken. That is why I prefaced by original comment directed at the OP to not misconstrue my opinion as anything other than that.
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A 454 case that's modified to chamber in a 45 Colt rifle does seem to me to be inherently a 45 colt case. I guess it would depend on the CO.

But having "45 Colt" stamped on the barrel seems like it would cause problems even without looking at the brass.
 
Sounds to me like you need to have your rifle modifed to use one of my wildcats, either the 454 Short Magnum or the 460 Short Magnum. The 454 Short Magnum is formed by taking 454 Casual brass and trimming it to the same length as the 44 Remington Magnum. The 460 Short Magnum is formed the same way.

The gun should be stamped to match to avoid any confusion on the part of the Game Warden or future owners.

These original cartridges are inspired by the need for a high performance cartridge of the same length as the 44 Rem Mag but of a larger caliber to match the performance of the old 45-75 in a modernized rifle.
 
jethunter said:
A 454 case that's modified to chamber in a 45 Colt rifle does seem to me to be inherently a 45 colt case. I guess it would depend on the CO.

But having "45 Colt" stamped on the barrel seems like it would cause problems even without looking at the brass.
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Fair enough, but I guess it depends on what the actual law or regulation reads. Is it "thou shalt not use a rifle chambered in 45LC" or is it "thou shalt not hunt with a 45 LC cartridge"? I don't know this answer to this but if its the latter and we are hung up that a modified case makes a non allowed cartridge(45 LC) why could you could not just use an unmodified case like 45 S+W cartridge in a 45 LC marked barrel. Just to be clear I am not advocating skirting the law just postulating an interesting line of thought.
 
I'm not trying to skirt the law here either... if it boils right down to it, I can just use a different rifle... not the end of the world. I just have a 45 colt 1892 that I really, really like. That's my take it out of the safe and just fondle it gun. It's a case hardened high grade furniture beauty and I love it. Smoothest action I've ever handled (and I have Henry's... this is smoother) and it is quite light to carry.

More than anything, I'm still mad that some desk jockey that works for the province excluded it from hunting just because he/she is stupid and doesn't know what a modern 45 colt load can do (probably doesn't hunt either). I'm not asking to go shoot big critters with cowboy loads. I just want to find a way to still use my most favorite rifle I have ever shot. Man, they allow a 22-250 to take big game now... it was pretty poorly decided all the way around.

It's not much different than when they restrict something. My lever gun will be a safe queen or range use only the way they have this crap drawn up... even though they haven't villified my rifle... they've pretty well turned it into a restricted (without the transport problems)

So that's why I hope to find a way to use it still. I can still use it for wild boar... but they are like trying to find bigfoot in my area.

The Sask Regs specifically read:
It is a violation to hunt big game with: any cartridge with an empty cartridge case length of less than 32 mm (this includes most handgun cartridges and all rimfire cartridges). any centre fire rifle cartridge of .17 calibre. or any of the following cartridges: .22 Hornet, .22 KHornet, .218 Bee, .25-20 Winchester, .30 Carbine, .32-20 Winchester, .357 Magnum, .41 Remington Magnum, .44-40 Winchester or .45 Colt.

It talks about cartridges, not about firearms/rifles... so going back to my original topic... it's about using a 454 casull cartridge, shortened, with 45 colt +P load data
 
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Trim to length for 45 colt is 1.280" OAL is 1.600" for most 250 grain bullets, but it's actually a max OAL of 1.700" for FTX bullets
Trim to length for 454 casull is 1.380" OAL is 1.700"

So I can make loaded ammo that is 1.700" that is at the min charge spec for 454 casull and the max charge for 45 colt with the same powder, and it can chamber in either a 45 colt or in a 454 casull.

The only thing I'm hung up on is the primer and how it effects the pressures.
 
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Ridersfan said:
I'm not trying to skirt the law here either... if it boils right down to it, I can just use a different rifle... not the end of the world. I just have a 45 colt 1892 that I really, really like. That's my take it out of the safe and just fondle it gun. It's a case hardened high grade furniture beauty and I love it. Smoothest action I've ever handled (and I have Henry's... this is smoother) and it is quite light to carry.

More than anything, I'm still mad that some desk jockey that works for the province excluded it from hunting just because he/she is stupid and doesn't know what a modern 45 colt load can do (probably doesn't hunt either). I'm not asking to go shoot big critters with cowboy loads. I just want to find a way to still use my most favorite rifle I have ever shot. Man, they allow a 22-250 to take big game now... it was pretty poorly decided all the way around.

It's not much different than when they restrict something. My lever gun will be a safe queen or range use only the way they have this crap drawn up... even though they haven't villified my rifle... they've pretty well turned it into a restricted (without the transport problems)

So that's why I hope to find a way to use it still. I can still use it for wild boar... but they are like trying to find bigfoot in my area.

The Sask Regs specifically read:
It is a violation to hunt big game with: any cartridge with an empty cartridge case length of less than 32 mm (this includes most handgun cartridges and all rimfire cartridges). any centre fire rifle cartridge of .17 calibre. or any of the following cartridges: .22 Hornet, .22 KHornet, .218 Bee, .25-20 Winchester, .30 Carbine, .32-20 Winchester, .357 Magnum, .41 Remington Magnum, .44-40 Winchester or .45 Colt.

It talks about cartridges, not about firearms/rifles... so going back to my original topic... it's about using a 454 casull cartridge, shortened, with 45 colt +P load data
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Of course you're trying to skirt the law. Not that I blame you, it's a stupid law but it would be unfortunate to get charged and all that goes with it. There is always some possibility a CO would charge you if you're hunting with a rifle that is stamped "45 Colt" on the barrel. But your choice and your price to pay if it goes wrong.
 
Wouldn’t the conversion to 454 casull be an easy one? You could simply have the chamber reamed and restamp the barrel. Probably be less work than having to trim all the brass.

If a CO asks simply tell him you rechambered the rifle to meet the new regs.
 
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