When choosing an action I look for two things...stiffness which can be the result of: small ejection port, integral scope rail, a bit of “beef” between the trigger and magazine cut-outs. The other factor I consider is “tight” radial clearance between the bolt/chamber on lock-up.
Choosing actions for a build
- Thread starter powdergun
- Start date
You are completely missing my point.
My whole point is that shouldered barrels are no more inconvenient than barrel nut pre-fits. The fallacy that barrel nut pre-fits are much more convenient than shouldered barrels is commonly mentioned on CGN, and has been brought up multiple times in this thread.
There are pros and cons to both. But let's stop pretending that shouldered barrels are so much more inconvenient than barrel nut barrels. This is false. There are pro's and cons to each system. In no way have I stated that shouldered barrels are the best option for everyone. Barrel nut pre-fits have their advantages, and may be a better option for some people. I have no real issue with barrel nut pre-fits. Savage nut, Bug Nut, ARC Barlock - whatever. I prefer a shouldered barrel - for what I need, I can't simply use off the shelf pre-manufactured/chambered barrels, and a barrel nut provides no advantage to me. For others, a barrel nut may make more sense. I understand that.
Most off the shelf pre-fits are made with budget blanks. Yes, you can custom order a barrel nut pre-fit with whatever option you choose - but then you essentially eliminate the advantages of a pre-fit over a shouldered barrel, and the argument is moot.
I'm simply trying to point out that shouldered barrels can be very simple to install, and the perception that barrel nut pre-fits are much more convenient is false. Simply illuminating an option that most people seem to be unaware of.
Shouldered barrel install:
- Needs to be made to the specific action or specific action has to be measured and the barrel is made for this spec
- Measurements and produced barrel need to match in this specs
- Barrel has to be made to accept wrench, flats or whatever
- Torque on a barrel will affect the head space
- As a matter of faith can be installed without go/nogauges if all the specs are perfect
- Convenient as seen on video of guy banging on a big shiny in a middle of a desert
Prefit with nut:
- Any action with a given standard thread, any standard barrel nut for that given thread
- Barrel is made to standard spec, made by many, can be made by anyone with less mistakes as shouldered barrel
- Barrel has no modification for a wrench, wrench fits on the barrel nut
- Torque on barrel nut does not affect head space, exact torque is not required
- Go/nogauges required at the time of the install to verify headspace as it is in real life not in specs
- Not convenient
I order a shouldered barrel, it shows up in the mail. I remove the old barrel, install the new barrel. Takes no time at all and minimal tools.
I swap between a 6.5 Creedmoor and 6BRA shouldered barrels all the time. Takes 2 minutes. It's no harder than installing a barrel nut barrel. It's super simple.
Unless you are changing the torque drastically from what the gunsmith used, it won't affect head space.
You are over thinking it and overstating the complications of a shouldered barrel. It really is super simple for the end user to change out shouldered barrels. Simpler than most realize.
I swap between a 6.5 Creedmoor and 6BRA shouldered barrels all the time. Takes 2 minutes. It's no harder than installing a barrel nut barrel. It's super simple.
Unless you are changing the torque drastically from what the gunsmith used, it won't affect head space.
You are over thinking it and overstating the complications of a shouldered barrel. It really is super simple for the end user to change out shouldered barrels. Simpler than most realize.
For those specific actions your gunsmith would have to see the action once. He can then save the specs of your threads, and subsequent barrels could be ordered over the phone/online and shipped to your door without having to send the action off to the gunsmith.
1. Remove barreled action from stock/chassis and place into barrel vice
2. Insert action wrench with torque wrench into action
3. Remove old barrel
4. Install new barrel - ensure to put anti-seize compound on threads. Torque to spec.
5. removed barreled action from vice and install into stock/chassis. Total time ~= 2 minutes
Again this requires:
After that the process is practically the same as barrel nut. You focus on the rest of the steps, but disregard all the above.
- Specs for the specific action to be taken by a smith. Barrel nut approach does not.
- Required to keep the measurements, not confuse measurements for other actions you might have. Barrel nut does not
- Requires to order a barrel to be made to the spec. Specs should not be confused by your or the smith. Barrel nut does not need that, everyone is already on the same page for the specs
- Requires the barrel to be true to your spec, barrels can be misplaced and confused if you have multiple barrels multiple actions. Barrel nuts does not care they are the same with extra space and you set it while you install it.
After that the process is practically the same as barrel nut. You focus on the rest of the steps, but disregard all the above.
I've never experienced any of the problems that you have described, nor have tens of thousands of other shooters down in the USA that order shouldered barrels over the past dozen years. And a machinist that is producing batch lots of pre-fit barrels can f%ck up a threading and chambering job on a pre-fit just as well as any gunsmith for a custom barrel. So don't assume that pre-fits are somehow immune to poor machinist/gunsmith work.
I will agree that barrel nut barrels provide the unique ability to adjust your own head space, which mitigates the very low likelihood of your gunsmith messing up the head spacing of a barrel. Feel free to chalk that up in the "advantage" column for the barrel nut pre-fits.
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Thousands of shooters used flintlocks for 300 years so what? Tech goes forward.
One approach is more labor intensive, the other is less. One is more custom, the other is more generic. As the production quality goes up and tolerances go up the less labor intensive generic approach will win. Case in point - ARC and Bighorn doing savage thread advertising prefits and quick change and all that.
One approach is more labor intensive, the other is less. One is more custom, the other is more generic. As the production quality goes up and tolerances go up the less labor intensive generic approach will win. Case in point - ARC and Bighorn doing savage thread advertising prefits and quick change and all that.
F@ck it, I give up. Shouldered barrels have zero advantages over their barrel nut counterparts. Incredibly difficult to install - requires specialized training and tools. They are prohibitively costly, exceeding most but the richest peoples budgets - only those with personal chauffeurs can even dream of having this luxury. Requires gunsmith work, and chances are extremely high that they will dicker it right up, creating an extremely hazardous condition to the shooter. Better have excellent life insurance. After all, most gunsmiths in Canada would f@ck a wet dream up. Extremely timely - you'll be lucky to have your barrel before your kids put you in a retirement home.
Everyone should get a barrel nut pre-fit, as they are vastly superior to a shouldered barrel in all ways. Did I get it right this time?
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Quit being so obtuse. Tell us how you really feel.
wapitiwhacker
CGN Regular
- Location
- East Kootenay B.C.
LMFAO!!! kthomas, you deserve some kind of award!! 6 pages since you politely pointed out that there are viable options to prefit barrels. No way in hell I could have lasted that long!!!
I would have tossed in the towel pages ago. Bravo!!!lol
Brutus
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Nothing personal against the Savage owners. I have seen some great shooting rifles built on this action.
Just does not appeal to myself. So glad I have my Wichita and 700 Varmint. If I didn't have these I probably would settle on a Baynard action.
To each his own.
Just does not appeal to myself. So glad I have my Wichita and 700 Varmint. If I didn't have these I probably would settle on a Baynard action.
To each his own.
Lol almost sad you gave up. Makes for an interesting read. Lol. Either way I was learning a lot from this post about shouldered barrels. To be 100% honest I didn’t really know much about them before this just barrel nuts. I’ve never had a switch barrel set up but was debating one. Definately something to look into now.
Of course he would
I am a big fan of people who tell the truth, do what they say and protect their citizens properly and trump does that
What you don’t like success or brains so you mock the poster
shame on you you should know better as a average gunsmith
and yes I change my own barrels for the last 20 years since 1998
Jeff
