6.5x55 sizing

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flat head

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Hi folks

Upon drawing the case out of the die, I get some fantastic-grinding resistance. Both with RCBS and Redding dies, U.S. and European brass. I've used graphite powder in the neck, polished the back of button ramp, but to no reduction in force at all.
I'm at a loss!
 
I use a spray lube and make sure the cases are standing when I spray them making sure a little goes inside the neck. The tiny bit that gets in there will not damage the powder or primer.
 
It's not just a 6.5 thing.

How often have you reloaded your brass. It may be quite hard.

One thing I do now, before sizing the necks, I use a stainless bore brush to clean the crud out of the neck interiors before I lube them.

Lubing the inside of the neck is important, I don't use graphite because it doesn't work as well as sizing lube. You don't need much and it should be cleaned if needed. Usually the button will wipe it out on the way out.

Carbon residue inside the neck won't be softened by Graphite or many other lubes. It needs to be brushed out.

I've seen die sets where the expander button has been pulled off the end of the rod because of work hardened necks and carbon build up not being addressed.


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I made some home made spray lube of alcohol and lanolin and spray the cases upright in a reloading tray to ensure it gets inside the case neck. The downside to this is you must tumble the cases after sizing to remove any lube inside the case.

You can also try Hornady One Shot spray that does not have to be removed. Just make sure you follow the directions and clean the die of all old lube and then spray some One Shot inside the die.

Another option is to buy a expander die and expand the necks on the upstroke of the ram. You would need to remove the dies expander and size the case in two operations.

260 Rem/6.5x55 Swedish Mauser Neck Expander M Die
https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item/000157349052/260-rem6halfx55-swedish-mauser-neck-expander-m-die

Expander Mandrels and Neck Tension
http://www.accurateshooter.com/technical-articles/reloading/expander-mandrels-and-neck-tension/

Note, excessive drag from the dies expander ball can pull the case shoulder upward and also induce neck runout. And why many reloaders use a separate expander die to insure more uniform shoulder location and reduce neck runout.

Below a example of a Lyman type "M" expander for the .223, this gives you .003 bullet grip. And just bumping the case mouth onto the .226 step aids in straight inline bullet seating.

ohIUcpd.png


The different brands of brass can have thicker case necks and increase the amount of friction and drag from the expander ball. I was sizing once fired 30-30 cases with thicker necks and had to use a expander die to keep from pulling the necks off center.

If you do not tumble your cases before reloading you can also try brushing the inside of the case necks. Some use a fiber brush or a copper bore brush to clean the necks.
 
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Good thread...since I"m just about to start this adventure too.
Been calling around looking to buy some Lanolin Oil in town....not really having much luck.
Could order online...and received yet another parcel in the mail....
(sorry for the hyjack...thought it might be relevant)
 
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Weekly Gear Update - 018 Expander Mandrel Dies


Below Sinclair expander mandrels expand the case necks when pushed downward into the case neck.

l_749001158_2_m.jpg



When I use my expander dies I use Imperial dry neck lube that is powdered graphite. Which is nothing more than finely ground carbon powder.

CH3epH9.jpg
 
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Thanks a lot folks. I'll start with that. So this is not uncommon? I've been loading bottleneck cases for around twenty years. Have not come across this yet! I'll go buy a lottery ticket.
 
Are there visible marks on the case after this happens? If I start seeing drag marks, I wrap a cleaning brush in soft cotton patch material soaked with Brasso metal polish. The brush gets chucked in a cordless drill and I polish the snot out of the inside of the die, paying special attention to the neck area. 5 minutes of that and the die is silky smooth again.
I think what happens is brass deposits on the inside of the die for whatever reason. Unchamfered brass does this.
I brush necks and thoroughly clean the exterior of the brass before lubing and sizing.
 
HuskyDude said:
Good thread...since I"m just about to start this adventure too.
Been calling around looking to buy some Lanolin Oil in town....not really having much luck.
Could order online...and received yet another parcel in the mail....
(sorry for the hyjack...thought it might be relevant)
Click to expand...

Try a pharmacy for lanolin.
 
flat head said:
Hi folks

Upon drawing the case out of the die, I get some fantastic-grinding resistance. Both with RCBS and Redding dies, U.S. and European brass. I've used graphite powder in the neck, polished the back of button ramp, but to no reduction in force at all.
I'm at a loss!
Click to expand...

Are you lubing the inside of the necks? You should be. No lube or not enough is the usual cause of this problem.
 
flat head said:
Hi folks

Upon drawing the case out of the die, I get some fantastic-grinding resistance. Both with RCBS and Redding dies, U.S. and European brass. I've used graphite powder in the neck, polished the back of button ramp, but to no reduction in force at all.
I'm at a loss!
Click to expand...

Below is a new RCBS expander ball and the rough areas will end up with embedded brass and make expanding even harder. And even after polishing the expander it can still pickup brass after time. After polishing the expander you can use a good copper bore cleaner to remove any brass buildup from the expander. If you keep polishing the expander to remove any brass it may become too small in diameter.

5Rqdvuh.jpg


The proper amount and type of lube inside the neck or better yet a carbide expander helps greatly. New cases freshly annealed are softer and do not have carbon inside the neck and tend to drag more on the expander.

After over 47 years of reloading I tried Hornady One Shot their dry film lube that does not need to be removed. The secret to its use is to "READ" and follow the directions and removing all of the older case lubes from inside the die. If you do not read and follow the directions on the can you will have sizing problems and hate it. Don't ask me how I know this :bangHead:

For you old farts like me with chronologically gifted eyesight it helps to put on your reading glasses and use a magnifying glass to read the small print on the can.
It even helps to lightly spray pistol cases when using carbide dies and ease the sizing effort and drag.
 
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The problem with using a bushing die is Redding tells you if the neck thickness varies .002 or more to use the expander that comes with the bushing die.

Meaning bushing dies work best with neck turned brass.

I'm wondering if the OPs expander is locked down off center or if the shell holder is tilting the case on the down stroke of the ram.

Using a expander die expands the neck on the up stroke of the ram with the case resting on its base and not pulling down on the rim.

A wet type lube rather than a dry graphite powder inside the neck might help.

I wish the OP would get back to us and let us know if he still has a problem.
 
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bigedp51 said:
The problem with using a bushing die is Redding tells you if the neck thickness varies .002 or more to use the expander that comes with the bushing die.

Meaning bushing dies work best with neck turned brass.

I'm wondering if the OPs expander is locked down off center or if the shell holder is tilting the case on the down stroke of the ram.

Using a expander die expands the neck on the up stroke of the ram with the case resting on its base and not pulling down on the rim.

A wet type lube rather than a dry graphite powder inside the neck might help.

I wish the OP would get back to us and let us know if he still has a problem.
Click to expand...

The more uniform the components you load, the greater the potential there is for producing accurate ammunition. In some cases neck turning might be beneficial, but this is normally preceded by the passage of a mandrel though the resized case neck so the case slides easily onto the pilot, which is a problem with a case that hasn't first been reamed if a donut exists in the neck. A run out gauge used at each step of the loading process, will pinpoint any detrimental change from the mirror image dimensions that the fired cartridge has of the chamber. The problem of an off centered decapping rod can be resolved by placing a rubber "O" ring under the lock nut, thus the decapping rod finds its own center, but necks with more than .004" of run out, have an alignment problem, regardless of which style of sizing die is used.

IMHO, wet lube inside the neck introduces more problems then it solves. It adds another step to the resizing process, which is wiping the wet out out of the case neck, otherwise you find powder granules stuck in the case neck, which can results in inconsistent powder charges. Two granules of a coarse grain propellant, will change a digital scale reading by a tenth, negating that careful weighing of propellant, neither of which is necessary when a dry neck lube is used.
 
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Boomer said:
IMHO, wet lube inside the neck introduces more problems then it solves. It adds another step to the resizing process, which is wiping the wet out out of the case neck, otherwise you find powder granules stuck in the case neck, which can results in inconsistent powder charges. Two granules of a coarse grain propellant, will change a digital scale reading by a tenth, negating that careful weighing of propellant, neither of which is necessary when a dry neck lube is used.
Click to expand...

I have used many types of case lubes depending on the circumstance. I use my home made lube alcohol and lanolin the most and make sure the lube gets inside the case neck.

After sizing the cases go into a vibratory tumbler to remove the case lube inside and outside of the case. You can also wash the cases with soap and water or use alcohol to remove the lube.

Is it a extra step, yes but I buy large batches of once fired military Lake City 7.62 and 5.56 brass and prefer my home made spray of alcohol and lanolin.

I have been trying Hornady One shot dry film case lube with good results and it does not need to be removed and you spray it inside the necks.

I'm retired with nothing to do and all day to do it but applying Imperial sizing wax and dipping the case necks in powdered graphite also takes time to apply.

So when you are sizing 500 once fired military cases spray lubes are faster and my home made spray of alcohol and lanolin is cheap and fast.
 
At least the Hornady expander button is tapered unlike the RCBS.I use these in FL sizing/forming 250 Savage brass from 22-250 and have never lost a case yet. I think there was an adapter or piece you could swap out the expander buttons from RCBS to Hornady.
 
mbogo3 said:
At least the Hornady expander button is tapered unlike the RCBS.I use these in FL sizing/forming 250 Savage brass from 22-250 and have never lost a case yet. I think there was an adapter or piece you could swap out the expander buttons from RCBS to Hornady.
Click to expand...

To me, the Hornady expander button makes so much sense, I don’t know why the others don’t use the same design.
 
mbogo3 said:
At least the Hornady expander button is tapered unlike the RCBS.I use these in FL sizing/forming 250 Savage brass from 22-250 and have never lost a case yet. I think there was an adapter or piece you could swap out the expander buttons from RCBS to Hornady.
Click to expand...

Same thing when using Hornady dies to expand 8x57 brass to 9.3x57. Hornady dies do it easily.
 
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