1911 or CZ75/85?

Both the Beretta 92 series and the CZ Bob mentioned are quality. But I disagree that they're better than a 1911 of a similar quality (Say, Ruger or a Smith E Series). It really depends on what you're after. Those are double action guns, and have completely different triggers and learning curves, as well as calibers, to a 1911. In a perfect world, buy one of each.

If OP is really concerned about budget and doesn't care about the type of gun (seeing as he's picking between two wildly different kinds in this thread), I'd say skip all of this and get a $550 M&P 2.0 in 9 millimeter. Best bang for the buck handgun currently available, as far as I'm concerned.
 
Kosmonument said:
Both the Beretta 92 series and the CZ Bob mentioned are quality. But I disagree that they're better than a 1911 of a similar quality (Say, Ruger or a Smith E Series). It really depends on what you're after. Those are double action guns, and have completely different triggers and learning curves, as well as calibers, to a 1911. In a perfect world, buy one of each.

If OP is really concerned about budget and doesn't care about the type of gun (seeing as he's picking between two wildly different kinds in this thread), I'd say skip all of this and get a $550 M&P 2.0 in 9 millimeter. Best bang for the buck handgun currently available, as far as I'm concerned.
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I agree with you but the OP set a limit of $700. He also mentioned DA/SA guns. At $550 the M&P is a buy, and better value. Had he mentioned striker fired guns the PPQ M2 5" is a better gun than the M&P 2.0 but is $200 more BUT within his budget. Lots of variables. I would rank the S&W 1911 above the Ruger. The only issue I have with the Ruger is the company has a well deserved reputation of spotty quality. They can be great or well, not so great. The 1911's are expense guns to shoot a lot if you are talking 45acp. Unless you are playing IPSC or to a lessor extend IDPA 1911's in 9MM don't offer much to recommend.

Take Care

Bob
 
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OkayShooter said:
Ive won club nights with my 600$ Sp01.. Most people that say norcs are great. Have tones of money into them. That in the end, they could have bought a quality gun.

Or you get people that want a target pistol... Oh you should look at a norc? Maybe why people run them into the dirt.

Cheap doesn't always mean better.
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I've won club nights with my Nork 1911 too, so what? While everyone that shoots my Norks likes them, many people have drank the anti Nork coolaid. One guy loved my pistol but said he did not like Norks; but an almost like new Star B instead for more money; what a POS it is. He has since bought a Nork .223 rifle. For those who like them, can afford them and therefore shoot them, (I shoot more because I bought prudently and reload) they are often the only choice; and at the very least, a good way to get into the sport and find what they like and grow into the sport.
 
One of the more interesting aspects of handgun ownership is a tendency for shooters to act like they own the company once they by their favourite blaster. Happens most frequently with Glock and CZ owners but Norc owners are just about as bad.

I have three Norcs right now. They work. One of them I dropped $500+ into because Norcs have some of the best steel in them you can find. It shoots as well as any $4K 1911. Dlask knows 1911's. The forged frames and slides of the Norc 1911's are unequaled when it comes to hardness. Ask any gunsmith! If you replace all the innards except the firing pin and extractor, change out the sight and grips and have a 'smith meld the slide edges you can turn them into outstanding pistols. If you don't they are inexpensive shooters, most of which run pretty good. Unfortunately you can't take them into the US to compete.

We all have our favourites. Mine are Norinco, S&W, Walther, Ruger, SIG, Beretta, CZ's, Colt, Uberti, Browning, Mossberg, Rossi, Tanfanglio and Girsan. Say anything against any one of them and it is pumpkins at 50 paces at dawn. Bring your seconds. Some of them are better for certain applications then others. Unfortunately their biggest problem is the owner. He seems to remain pretty average no matter how good someone said the gun was.

Take Care

Bob
 
Canuck44 said:
I agree with you but the OP set a limit of $700. He also mentioned DA/SA guns. At $550 the M&P is a buy, and better value. Had he mentioned striker fired guns the PPQ M2 5" is a better gun than the M&P 2.0 but is $200 more BUT within his budget. Lots of variables. I would rank the S&W 1911 above the Ruger. The only issue I have with the Ruger is the company has a well deserved reputation of spotty quality. They can be great or well, not so great. The 1911's are expense guns to shoot a lot if you are talking 45acp. Unless you are playing IPSC or to a lessor extend IDPA 1911's in 9MM don't offer much to recommend.

Take Care

Bob
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My experience is it's Smith that has dropped in quality, mainly in terms of their 686 line (cheaper materials, worse craftsmanship, those inane locks). Ruger's known as the all-American "tank" brand and any gun I've held by them (about a half dozen at this point) has been of pretty good quality. And let me tell you, they shoot very well. YMMV, but I think both the Smith and Ruger brands are great in different ways. Each leagues better than that Norinco trash. But hey if you want to support the Chinese knockoff firearm industry, power to ya. Me, I'd trade our Russia ban for the States' China ban any day.
 
Buy the CZ as your 9mm and then later get a 1911 in .45.
There is something about how the 1911 cycles that round that will always put a smile on my face.
If I had a $700 budget for a 1911 I would buy a Ruger SR1911 Commander. Great balance and looks.
 
McHoss said:
Buy the CZ as your 9mm and then later get a 1911 in .45.
There is something about how the 1911 cycles that round that will always put a smile on my face.
If I had a $700 budget for a 1911 I would buy a Ruger SR1911 Commander. Great balance and looks.
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1911 and .45 ACP is like peanut butter and jelly. And I love how easy it is to load 1911 mags!
The only problem is the take down and re-assembly. The floating linkage on the guide rod is a pain in the ....
 
Still alive said:
1911 and .45 ACP is like peanut butter and jelly. And I love how easy it is to load 1911 mags!
The only problem is the take down and re-assembly. The floating linkage on the guide rod is a pain in the ....
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It’s funny, I’ve heard that, but I’ve never had an issue. Must be just dumb luck on my part.
 
Canuck44 said:
One of the more interesting aspects of handgun ownership is a tendency for shooters to act like they own the company once they by their favourite blaster. Happens most frequently with Glock and CZ owners but Norc owners are just about as bad.

I have three Norcs right now. They work. One of them I dropped $500+ into because Norcs have some of the best steel in them you can find. It shoots as well as any $4K 1911. Dlask knows 1911's. The forged frames and slides of the Norc 1911's are unequaled when it comes to hardness. Ask any gunsmith! If you replace all the innards except the firing pin and extractor, change out the sight and grips and have a 'smith meld the slide edges you can turn them into outstanding pistols. If you don't they are inexpensive shooters, most of which run pretty good. Unfortunately you can't take them into the US to compete.

We all have our favourites. Mine are Norinco, S&W, Walther, Ruger, SIG, Beretta, CZ's, Colt, Uberti, Browning, Mossberg, Rossi, Tanfanglio and Girsan. Say anything against any one of them and it is pumpkins at 50 paces at dawn. Bring your seconds. Some of them are better for certain applications then others. Unfortunately their biggest problem is the owner. He seems to remain pretty average no matter how good someone said the gun was.

Take Care

Bob
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You are correct about the steel. The manufacturers of Magnum Conversion kits such as the .45 Super and .460 Rowland have Norinco 1911s at the top of their very short list for these high power loads; and they state that it is the quality of the steel that makes them so durable. Any one who has ever tried to cut a larger dovetail, or relieve a slide for a rear sight learns quickly that a HSS milling cutter won't work, and a carbide will give you about 1 dove tail before it is pooched. Pretty well indestructible. I load my .45 at the max. load data with 200 gr; not because it won't cycle on light loads, but accuracy is improved at those hotter levels. I hope to try out my 9mm 1911 this week; I load them hot for my NZ85; and again it shoots better with those hot 124 gr. loads.
 
Meroh said:
You are correct about the steel. The manufacturers of Magnum Conversion kits such as the .45 Super and .460 Rowland have Norinco 1911s at the top of their very short list for these high power loads; and they state that it is the quality of the steel that makes them so durable. Any one who has ever tried to cut a larger dovetail, or relieve a slide for a rear sight learns quickly that a HSS milling cutter won't work, and a carbide will give you about 1 dove tail before it is pooched. Pretty well indestructible. I load my .45 at the max. load data with 200 gr; not because it won't cycle on light loads, but accuracy is improved at those hotter levels. I hope to try out my 9mm 1911 this week; I load them hot for my NZ85; and again it shoots better with those hot 124 gr. loads.
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Wilson Combat used to have a list of guns they would do work on. The Norinco 1911's were listed as guns they would customize....Kimbers were not on the list. The steel is great.

One of our shooters had nothing but grieve with his 9MM, Timing was out and they had the wrong size of barrel link installed. Once the correct size link was installed by his 'smith the gun shot fine. From what I have seen all the Norincos need some tender loving care to get them to the point where they are decent shooters. Some don't but the ones I have seen did. Heavy trigger pulls and poor sights were the most common complaint.

For the most part you get what you pay for. Pride in ownership is often ahead of shooting skill level. The latter can come with practice. The former....well I like my Norincos but I love my Shadowline. I guess guns are a bit like women in that regard or men to be politically correct.

Take Care

Bob
 
Still alive said:
The Tok is just crazy! You run the risk of scratching the gun every time! I’ve played with 1911s for 20+ years. Still have trouble with the linkage. Must be a slow learner!
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Try pushing your tongue into your left cheek while thinking about going to church on Sunday as you try to slip the slide stop through the link. I have found it helps. If it doesn't God doesn't believe you are sincere about going to church on Sunday cuz he knows you are going to shoot a match on Sunday.

Take Care

Bob
 
What about a CZ and a .45 gun all rolled into one gun? A CZ97. It's a big gun but if you take large or X-large size gloves you'd love it. If not you'll hate it.

Thanks to living near a commercial rent-A-gun range I had a chance to try out about a dozen or more 9mm guns before I decided. For me I quickly learned that I liked the heft and balance of an all metal gun. And from there the quest led me to the 92FS and the Jericho. The Jericho was in the lead until I got to try a CZ Shadow.... it was so head and shoulders over all the rest that it wasn't a hard decision at all. I later added a older CZ 75 Pre-B version to the family and I love both of them. There's some deals around on the old Shadows and you would not be at all disappointed in it not being a "2" at all. But if you tripped over a CZ-85 Combat I'd jump on that as a great option.

As for the Norc NP29 I do consider them to be nicely made in general. But Norc guns do not have the top notch quality control over the fit. So the slide to frame fits can be all over the place. Get a good one and they are great. Get a loose sloppy one and they rattle like a cheap can of paint with the marble inside. Shopping in person helps but that implies that you know what to look for.
 
BCRider said:
What about a CZ and a .45 gun all rolled into one gun? A CZ97. It's a big gun but if you take large or X-large size gloves you'd love it. If not you'll hate it.

Thanks to living near a commercial rent-A-gun range I had a chance to try out about a dozen or more 9mm guns before I decided. For me I quickly learned that I liked the heft and balance of an all metal gun. And from there the quest led me to the 92FS and the Jericho. The Jericho was in the lead until I got to try a CZ Shadow.... it was so head and shoulders over all the rest that it wasn't a hard decision at all. I later added a older CZ 75 Pre-B version to the family and I love both of them. There's some deals around on the old Shadows and you would not be at all disappointed in it not being a "2" at all. But if you tripped over a CZ-85 Combat I'd jump on that as a great option.

As for the Norc NP29 I do consider them to be nicely made in general. But Norc guns do not have the top notch quality control over the fit. So the slide to frame fits can be all over the place. Get a good one and they are great. Get a loose sloppy one and they rattle like a cheap can of paint with the marble inside. Shopping in person helps but that implies that you know what to look for.
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While I would love a "real" CZ, and I totally agree with your assessment, it is not in the budget right now. I do have the CZ85B, and while the finish is not as nice as a CZ, it has a good trigger, it is accurate, and it feels and fits he hand about the same.
 
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