The BCL WEJACK and CATAMOUNT

[cr5]

Not sure what the fascination with piston guns is. They're heavy, often have excess recoil impulses and don't do anything special.

They drank the kool-aid and think they run cleaner and cooler. Truth is the crap just accumulates somewhere else and since the gasses exhaust under the handguard it gets even hotter than a DI gun.
I've owned both and they both run more rounds between cleaning without issue than I typically put through a rifle in a season (still need oil regularly but not cleaning).
I guess people just like paying more for a rifle that doesn't do anything better and is harder to get parts for.

All the guys waiting for the Badger,
Consider:
1-NEA/BCL has a terrible reputation for quality control and has had that rep since they started making firearms.
2-NEA/BCL has been jumping around making different rifles trying to get some sales and other than the 102 gaining popularity when it was the only option it has seen two or three revisions since that were more than just cosmetic and created incompatibility issues with aftermarket parts making owners more dependent on BCL for parts instead of being able to buy some quality aftermarket parts.
3-Do you think they will still be making parts for the Badger in five years? If you got lucky and bought one that works, when it starts to wear out and you need some of those proprietary gas system parts for the gun they haven't made for 3 years because after the first year people figured out BCL still hasn't got their crap together and quit buying them?


This is exactly what will happen (again).

People will flame NEA until the badger comes out. Then they will fly off the shelves for the first few months. Guys will pre order like 10 of them only to resell them on the EE for a massive profit to those who are too impatient to wait for retail.

Once people start having problems with them, everyone will sell them on the EE for a loss. It's the NEA full circle.

 

[Non-phixion]

News flash its all gonna suck.

 

[hawk-i]

Generally speaking most DI guns are thought to hold the edge in accuracy but Gas piston guns are thought to hold the edge in reliability.

 

[ThatM305Guy]

Generally speaking most DI guns are thought to hold the edge in accuracy but Gas piston guns are thought to hold the edge in reliability.

Pretty much this. It's funny that people get so incredibly uppity about how amazing DI is, and everything else is such ####, blah blah....there is only 1 widespread design in history that is DI.......and it's the AR. EVERYTHING else is piston driven. Like the 416, AK, ACR, etc etc...

Saying one or the other sucks for x reason is idiotic as they are both good for different reasons. I personally think that the DI has advantages in extreme cold weather because of the way it heats up the action after the first couple rounds.

But this is the internet.....so if you dont agree with me then you are obviously the stupidest person in the world because I totally know what I'm talking about.

 

[no-one special]

They just rebranded their guns. The wejack is just the nea/bcl ar 15 and the catamount is the bcl 102. The badger hasn't been out in the wild yet.

THIS!!! NEA/BCL are the kings of re-inventing themselves, so new names for the same old garbage will fool some of the public, yet again. And on and on they will go.

 

[Meroh]

THIS!!! NEA/BCL are the kings of re-inventing themselves, so new names for the same old garbage will fool some of the public, yet again. And on and on they will go.

So what??? Auto companies do the same thing. I've said it before and I will say it again; I have an AR I built on unfinished AR upper and lower form BCL and it is a sub MOA built with econo parts. I should have bought them all when they were available. Gring them on BCL!!! The detractors can go suck a fart out of a dead Wejack!

 

[Yycbulletsandbrass]

So what??? Auto companies do the same thing. I've said it before and I will say it again; I have an AR I built on unfinished AR upper and lower form BCL and it is a sub MOA built with econo parts. I should have bought them all when they were available. Gring them on BCL!!! The detractors can go suck a fart out of a dead Wejack!

Your one off rifle that you built is not evidence that NEA/BCL can produce reliable and repeatable products. The detraction is based on a long long history of producing garbage. And the restricted variant is an odd choice with such a soft AR market. Enjoy your NEA/BCL products but you'll likely be in the very small minority.

 

[FoxAlpha]

Generally speaking most DI guns are thought to hold the edge in accuracy but Gas piston guns are thought to hold the edge in reliability.

I’ll put a crisp 100 dollar bill that 99.89% of individuals on this forum will never be able to see the functional difference between a DI and a PD rifle.

I’ve yet to even see a Canadian civilian who even owns an HK 416 or one of those variants who doesn’t cry when their rifle bumps against one of their many other safe queens, let alone run it to the point in which a PD system could be considered advantageous.

On the civilian market, especially the Canadian civilian market, the DI vs PD argument is 100% moot point.

 

[-[Crosshair]-]

I should have bought them all when they were available. Gring them on BCL!!! The detractors can go suck a fart out of a dead Wejack!

As a person who's close friend got a permanently disabled hand that forced him to completely change career paths because of a NEA firearm, nah, they can go f**k themselves.

 

[JaredP]

In a day where everyone across the board recognizes the benefit of free-floated barrels, it's incredibly ironic that we're still strapping springs and moving parts to barrel when we absolutely do not need to be.

 

[Deckard]

Plus people forgot about bolt carrier tipping.

 

[Uisge]

I had never seen a WEJACK/Fisher first hand until this past summer; just a few miles north of Warkworth walking out a field access like he did not give a s***, right beside the road. Dark, almost black coat with black, evil looking eyes... and big! I would bet on the Fisher too.

Regarding BCL/NEA; the only experience I have with them is I have an AR upper and lower. I should have bought more of them when they were available... kicking my ass ever since. Compatible with all of the other MIL spec components; fit was excellent; these were unfinished when I got them, and truly, I would buy more if they were available.

I saw one of those lanky buggers last year too, must have been a good year for them, never saw one in my life before that. Came in to check out our coyote calls, didn’t mess around though, ran full tilt across the trail and back into the bush. Seemed longer than the tire tracks were wide when he blew past them. Big bugger.

 

[HotSoup]

In a day where everyone across the board recognizes the benefit of free-floated barrels, it's incredibly ironic that we're still strapping springs and moving parts to barrel when we absolutely do not need to be.

Explain then, how the Swiss Arms is such an extremely accurate gun then, with a big huking piston and gas block on it? Free floating is a ####ing meme. C7 isnt free floating either. No one is hurting for accuracy.

 

[Epoxy7]

In a day where everyone across the board recognizes the benefit of free-floated barrels, it's incredibly ironic that we're still strapping springs and moving parts to barrel when we absolutely do not need to be.

Check out the ADCOR. They came up with an ingenious system of mounting the piston in the free float handguard with a gas tube off the barrel to the piston. Piston function with free float barrel accuracy. I'm actually really surprised these didn't gain a lot more popularity. I think had the US M4 replacement competition continued that the ADCOR had a good shot.

 

[ThatM305Guy]

In a day where everyone across the board recognizes the benefit of free-floated barrels, it's incredibly ironic that we're still strapping springs and moving parts to barrel when we absolutely do not need to be.

The handguard is mounted directly to the receiver and doesnt touch even the barrel nut

Having said that, there is pretty much no such thing as a free floated barrel on anything other than a bolt action so....

 

[ThatM305Guy]

Check out the ADCOR. They came up with an ingenious system of mounting the piston in the free float handguard with a gas tube off the barrel to the piston. Piston function with free float barrel accuracy. I'm actually really surprised these didn't gain a lot more popularity. I think had the US M4 replacement competition continued that the ADCOR had a good shot.

Just watched some of their videos.....very cool design. Very cool.

 

[JaredP]

Explain then, how the Swiss Arms is such an extremely accurate gun then, with a big huking piston and gas block on it? Free floating is a ####ing meme. C7 isnt free floating either. No one is hurting for accuracy.

the barrel mounted piston is a liability. if it's implemented incorrectly, it decimates the precision of your rifle system

Free floating is a ####ing meme

you are seemingly so eager to disqualify yourself from rational debate. please show me how more rattly plastic crap or a piston seated loosely on your barrel is of any benefit?

you can certainly implement a piston correctly. but why make the effort? you can just use a conventional piston-as-bolt operating mechanism with higher precision and less parts.

Check out the ADCOR. They came up with an ingenious system of mounting the piston in the free float handguard with a gas tube off the barrel to the piston. Piston function with free float barrel accuracy. I'm actually really surprised these didn't gain a lot more popularity. I think had the US M4 replacement competition continued that the ADCOR had a good shot.

stoner had this genius idea where he just used the bolt AS the piston. he made a rifle around the idea, the ar15. why are extra parts such a genius idea when they're completely unnecessary?

 

[ThatM305Guy]

Plus people forgot about bolt carrier tipping.

People dont forget. The 416 solved this with a tapered bolt carrier. By the looks of their (BCL) tunable buffer, it is slightly tapered on the nose to wedge into the bolt carrier, there by supporting and eliminating concerns about carrier tilt. Long stroke will also help in this area, because it is one moving unit, not subject to the harsh impact on the striking surface of the bolt carrier.

 

[ThatM305Guy]

the barrel mounted piston is a liability. if it's implemented incorrectly, it decimates the precision of your rifle system
why not eliminate all the moving parts? Why not just use a bolt action? Heck, break action? Different designs offer different advantages and capabilities in different areas.


you are seemingly so eager to disqualify yourself from rational debate. (except he isnt really wrong)please show me how more rattly plastic crap or a piston seated loosely on your barrel is of any benefit?

you can certainly implement a piston correctly. but why make the effort? you can just use a conventional piston-as-bolt operating mechanism with higher precision and less parts.
stoner had this genius idea where he just used the bolt AS the piston. he made a rifle around the idea, the ar15. why are extra parts such a genius idea when they're completely unnecessary?
He also in doing so increased maintenance requirements,
As well as increased wear due to heat, especially when not properly maintained. You seem to be so keen on fewer parts and floating barrels....again, why not just go with a bolt action? After all, an AR 15 has parts strapped onto the barrel too.
Different designs offer different advantages and capabilities. To proclaim that all other rifle designs are inferior to the ar15 is ignorant beyond words....honestly. Like I understand what you're saying, but you cant honestly believe that. There is no such thing as a perfect weapon system.

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[JaredP]

...

your comments are barely comprehensible

i was comparing two types of gas-operated, semi-automatic firearms. the discussion was regarding exclusively, gas-operated semi-automatic firearms, and competing mechanisms of operation.

how, in your mind, is idea of comparing a bolt-action rifle to either mechanism of implementing, a gas-operated semi-automatic firearm, a rational point of debate?

the principles behind free-floating barrels is well beyond the point of debate. it is unequivocally a benefit to the precision of a rifle system to let a barrel oscillate without impediment especially when the impediment can vary (piston seating in a gas cup slightly different, clam-shell handguard slipping back and forth on a barrel, etc). To vary harmonization of a barrel, shot to shot, is to vary it's point of impact.

also in doing so increased maintenance requirements
well as increased wear due to heat

show me literally any evidence that barrel mounted gas-pistons operate with increased reliability over modern AR15s or with less heat, and i'll show you evidence to the contrary. The "benefits" of reliability/maintenanc are a wash at best.

After all, an AR 15 has parts strapped onto the barrel too.

the idea is that the AR15 has the absolute minimum number of parts affixed on the barrel to operate as a semi-automatic, gas-operated firearm, and the parts that are affixed to the barrel are securely mounted such that they do not re-orient themselves between shots.

To proclaim that all other rifle designs are inferior to the ar15 is ignorant beyond words
There is no such thing as a perfect weapon system.

Good thing I didn't claim either of these things. Jesus christ dude.