Bullpup .223

I've got it stuck in my mind that 'more barrel = more accuracy' haha! That's just me expecting more/different from the Tavor than what it's supposed to be.


Tavors can be had on the EE for $1800, while the RDB ends up somewhere around $1600 I think.

My own perception of the two, is that under regular use/abuse, the Tavor should last at least twice as long as the RDB.... so it should be half the price :).
 
cr5 said:
In all honesty though, if you want your new gun for coyote hunting the best coyote rig out there will be a $700 22-250 bolt action with a $1000 scope. There isn't a semi auto available that will be as light, as accurate, or as reliable. Plus you would have money left over for a pile of ammo and you'd still spend less than buying a used Tavor that would still need an optic and ammo.
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Absolutely true! I thought that bullpups would change the shooting world; they haven't...but they are still different and they do make me smile. The forward-ejecting RFB and the downward-ejecting RDB are unique enough that I really enjoy using them, but they will always be toys in my eyes. If I need to take a serious shot, I want a bolt rifle in my hands. The semi-autos, to me, are specialized coyote rifles; it's a fun type of hunting, the only type of hunting where I can actually use the capabilities of a semi, but there will simply never be a coyote that is so critical to me that I absolutely must make the shot, or even take the shot.

If you need military-grade hardware...because, you know, zombies and stuff...then the Tavor is the answer. It's also the answer if you want to make the triggers on all your other rifles seem great by comparison.

One of these days I will bite the bullet and get a Desert Tech bolt bullpup and all the pieces will then click into place...:)
 
CoonT said:
I've got it stuck in my mind that 'more barrel = more accuracy' haha! That's just me expecting more/different from the Tavor than what it's supposed to be.


Tavors can be had on the EE for $1800, while the RDB ends up somewhere around $1600 I think.

My own perception of the two, is that under regular use/abuse, the Tavor should last at least twice as long as the RDB.... so it should be half the price :).
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Longer barrels are not more accurate. Higher quality and better made barrels are more accurate. I used to have a 6.5 inch barreled AR-15, that 6.5 was made from a stainless match grade blank. It could shoot 2 moa with quality ammo. The velocity was crap so more holdover for longer shots but I don't think anyone builds a 6.5 inch barreled AR for long range shooting.

I would guess you're not far off on the Tavor lasting twice as long, I'd even say it would probably last three or four times longer on average. It will also have better parts support for longer. Unfortunately pricing does not work that way, it seems like the quality stuff sets the prices and the cheap "affordable" stuff is priced to just be attainable for your average person living on a lesser income so they can have toys as well. It keeps us all broke that way, lol.


lavino said:
Nothing wrong with the T97 if you got the right one that doesn't suck =P
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Can't argue with that, but how do you know if you got one that doesn't suck till after you've already paid for it?
 
The T97 is an inexpensive, light, reliable, tough, and in my experience, accurate little rifle. The problem with it is literally everything else, haha

While it does seem like you are more likely to get a lemon T97, I have also owned multiple T97s, and have multiple friends who have owned T97s of every generation, all with zero issues. The fearmongering should be taken with a grain of salt. From what I've seen, they're built better every year, and luckily for anyone who wants to buy one, the first digits of a T97's serial number is the year of manufacture (13-16 I believe) so you can mitigate the risk.
 
I too thought that the Tavor would make a great varmint/coyote rig. I used it for that purpose for quite a while and I really tried to like it but I have came to the realization that you can't make a platform excel at something it wasn't designed and/or intended for. Sure you can do it however the negatives (in that role) far outweigh any perceived positives.

A nice 22-250 or 243 bolt action rifle will serve you better.
 
T97 Gen 2 if your budget is limited, doubt tavor/x95 would be 3times more safer or reliable when comes to the price. But if you can expand your budget, x95 is a good option.
 
*cough* :)

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Buuutt... yeah, expensive for plinking and varminting though, esperically when you add the price(s) of some optic, buttpad/grip, trigger, trigger pack, etc

Edit: Now I need and FDE vector to go with my x95, haha!
 
Looks great Tharkhold!

Honestly, I got to thinking about the bullpup after seeing someone with a 20x (?) scope on a cmr-30. I love the idea of a smaller form-factor NR tractor gun and thought the bullpup would fit that (and fire the same ammo as my AR).

For the price-point though, I'll probably just get a WK180 and look around for a folding stock... and, knowing me, then continue looking for something like the CMR-30. (I'm just not keen on 22WMR if I've already got a .223).
 
Tractor and yotes, nothing wrong with a T97.
You are not going to cry over a blemish or tiny scratch.
AR mags, so long as you stick to aluminum GI mags.


As far as scopes go, for plinking and 'yotes, do you really need the equivalent of the Hubble telescope mounted on it?
Are you going after the ticks on the coyotes back, or the coyote?

A T97 is actually pretty reliable and accurate.
Check out the EE.
All you do is ask if there have been any problems with feeding and any other.
The gen 1 is problematic for an optic but there are options, all you have to do is ask.
The gen 2 is more optic friendly.

I have three T97s all gen 1s.
I also have two Tavors.
I love them all, but the Tavors are a bit chunkier.
 
Yeah, but this is the Black Rifle forum, where we are pistol-whipped if we complain about poor accuracy...you know, these guns aren't intended to be accurate, so expecting that apparently shows how unrealistic we are. Then, those same people who defend their expensive 3MOA rifles immediately plop on 3-15x or 6-24x scopes and think they look cool...when a red-dot or a 1-4x scope suits the accuracy much better.

And check out that X95 with the EOTech...it still looks cool and the optic fits the accuracy. :)
 
Daver_II said:
Don't bother with the T97. Can be a crapshoot.

Tavor is good.
Rdb is supposed to be good.
FS2000 is awesome. IMO
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I agree with this comment except for the FS2000. If you consider the FS2000, make sure to get some time on one before committing to its rarity surcharge. Neat gun if your a collector imo but I would never pick it as my main rifle for so many reasons. Tavor Tar21's are a really hard to beat gun for the value these days and will likely climb in value long term due to them being discontinued and replaced by the Tavor x95.
 
I would reccomend the T97 gen 2 + the lhg. Performance similar to a tavor in terms of accuracy/manual of arms. Much more robust, easy to maintain design and you get an extra $1500 to spend on ammo to practice!
 
I very much prefer the looks of the M17s to any other bullpup. Most bullpups are way too chunky but the Bushmaster/K&M actually looks good. And the trigger is supposed to be excellent. I should stop buying cheap guns (bought a Savage 10TR and a WK180C in the past year) and get something nice :).
 
I recently acquired a Tavor and it definitely climbed it's way to favorite black rifle I own for how it feels and handles. The only problem is my wife likes it more so it became "hers"
 
I bought a used k+m M17 off EE and love it. Haven't put many rounds down range yet but it's trigger is amazing and is pretty accurate.. I had a T97 with the FTU and LHG I got rid of that was an alright rifle, glad it's gone though. I always wanted to try shooting a tavor, I think they are one of the better bull pups as well.
 
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