Please direct us to those studies. I hear this all the time, but have not seen any proof of same.
Thanks,
Ted
Monolithic vs Lead Construction
- Thread starter woodlotowner
- Start date
Please direct us to those studies. I hear this all the time, but have not seen any proof of same.
Thanks,
Ted
This might fit in here somewhere. CDC did a test between hunters and non-hunters and lead levels were very close. Hunter's and their families were lower. 
https://www.ballisticstudies.com/site/ballisticstudies/EatingGame_TradAmmo.pdf
https://www.ballisticstudies.com/site/ballisticstudies/EatingGame_TradAmmo.pdf
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- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
If you're worried about lead bullets, wrap copper jackets around them. If you're still worried about lead, bond it to the copper jackets. If you're still worried about lead, you worry too much. Most people don't eat the pulped meat that lies around the wound channel created by high velocity game bullets, and this is primarily where bullet fragments are found. The idea that any lead is consumed from the hundreds of pounds of edible meat recovered from say a moose, is pretty much unbelievable, and isn't much more believable if we consider the wound volume compared to the volume of harvested meat of caribou, deer, bear, or antelope.
There was a lot of attention brought to the plight of people who suffered the affects of consuming a primary diet of mercury contaminated fish, but I've never seen or heard of a single instance of an individual who suffered any symptoms what so ever, from ingesting lead from game, large or small, that was shot with lead bullets or pellets. If this evidence existed, the anti-hunters, anti-gun folks, and the like minded medical associations across North America would be all over it, and the ammunition makers would have been sued into non-existence long ago. That said, if you cast, swage, load, or handle lead bullets, its prudent to wash your hands before eating.
There was a lot of attention brought to the plight of people who suffered the affects of consuming a primary diet of mercury contaminated fish, but I've never seen or heard of a single instance of an individual who suffered any symptoms what so ever, from ingesting lead from game, large or small, that was shot with lead bullets or pellets. If this evidence existed, the anti-hunters, anti-gun folks, and the like minded medical associations across North America would be all over it, and the ammunition makers would have been sued into non-existence long ago. That said, if you cast, swage, load, or handle lead bullets, its prudent to wash your hands before eating.
Shooting non-lead bullets is an option of being proactive and preventative against their toxins. However for me personally, my annual physical exams indicate that I'm lead free. If there was any concerns of lead from hunters, a closer look into their mouths of lead tooth fillings should be more alarming than lead-shot game.
This might fit in here somewhere. CDC did a test between hunters and non-hunters and lead levels were very close. Hunter's and their families were lower.
https://www.ballisticstudies.com/site/ballisticstudies/EatingGame_TradAmmo.pdf
And these results were different.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0013935109001467
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
Although I see the the date of the study was 2009, most subjects in the study ate game in the years prior to the lead shot ban for migratory birds. My understanding is that lead is accumulative, so lead shot from years past might account for the bulk of their findings. Neither did they make make any attempt to find a difference between consumed small game killed with shotgun pellets, and small game killed with a single .22 bullet and seemed to consider the two interchangeably. The fact that there was a 92 year old subject in the test should relieve most fears about lead ingestion. They do suggest that lead exposure in meat could be resolved through better butchering practices.
I am not surprised that there are different opinions on this topic because there are two points of contention 1) effectiveness of bullets and 2) health concerns.
Lead bullets are generally less expensive and more frangible. They can inflict more damage but generally don't penetrate as well as a mono. Mono bullets are generally more expensive, do not fragment and penetrate better. So there a pluses and minuses to both and hunters have their preferences (as we have seen in the comments). On this topic you can take your pick it does not matter that much. If you develop your load correctly, practice and use proper shot placement you should have success.
As far as lead as a health concern: 1) there is not doubt that lead is a neuro toxin and has other negative effect on your health. This is especially true for children and fetuses 2) Medical professionals state that there is no safe level of lead to consume. 3) it has been shown that if you shoot lead it is going to get into the meat you eat. 4) Some studies show it will raise levels of lead in your blood. 5) There has not been conclusive study that shows that lead in game has had negative effects on human health. But this would be very difficult to study in a controlled manner.
The information is out there it is up to each person to assess the risk involved. Personally, if there is a simple and inexpensive way that I can reduce risk to myself and my family, I use it.
Lead bullets are generally less expensive and more frangible. They can inflict more damage but generally don't penetrate as well as a mono. Mono bullets are generally more expensive, do not fragment and penetrate better. So there a pluses and minuses to both and hunters have their preferences (as we have seen in the comments). On this topic you can take your pick it does not matter that much. If you develop your load correctly, practice and use proper shot placement you should have success.
As far as lead as a health concern: 1) there is not doubt that lead is a neuro toxin and has other negative effect on your health. This is especially true for children and fetuses 2) Medical professionals state that there is no safe level of lead to consume. 3) it has been shown that if you shoot lead it is going to get into the meat you eat. 4) Some studies show it will raise levels of lead in your blood. 5) There has not been conclusive study that shows that lead in game has had negative effects on human health. But this would be very difficult to study in a controlled manner.
The information is out there it is up to each person to assess the risk involved. Personally, if there is a simple and inexpensive way that I can reduce risk to myself and my family, I use it.
When i was younger i swallowed several live 22lr rounds. No pockets while climbing a tree with a rifle. Branch broke gravity worked and i swallowed them. Ive had many xrays and mri sense then. Their not in my system.
I cast lead bullets. I load lead bullets. Ive worked in a paint shop painting trucks. I live primarily on wild game and can remember biting into many pellets over the years from bunnies squirrels ducks geese grouse and pheasants.
The idea i make less money because of lead exposure is only true because i call in sick to go hunting. My job and career is controlled by other factors not the bullets i choose to put in bambi. But thanks for the laugh
Lead in the air is different from lead chunks found in game.
Having had lead pellets smacked thru my skin hasnt raised my lead levels in my blood and my levels remain constant over the course of 2 decades im not concerned.
I live down wind or detroit and sarnia in the fertilizer zone of canada and blood and urine allow me a half million dollar life insurance policy for 7 dollars a month
I cast lead bullets. I load lead bullets. Ive worked in a paint shop painting trucks. I live primarily on wild game and can remember biting into many pellets over the years from bunnies squirrels ducks geese grouse and pheasants.
The idea i make less money because of lead exposure is only true because i call in sick to go hunting. My job and career is controlled by other factors not the bullets i choose to put in bambi. But thanks for the laugh
Lead in the air is different from lead chunks found in game.
Having had lead pellets smacked thru my skin hasnt raised my lead levels in my blood and my levels remain constant over the course of 2 decades im not concerned.
I live down wind or detroit and sarnia in the fertilizer zone of canada and blood and urine allow me a half million dollar life insurance policy for 7 dollars a month
I've had mixed results with using mono bullets, only tried them in the last few years for hunting though...
GMX's produced drop on spot kills.
TSX's some drop on spot and some went 30-50 yards.
E-tip only on 1 moose, disappointed in performance, seemed like very little expansion.
So on an average with only a short time frame of use and a small sample of game animals. I'd have to say my results are probably fairly average to what would be expected from most any lead core bullet.
With so many variables in type of game and type of hunting it's hard for me to make a definitive assessment on their performance in general.
If I shoot for bone mono's are most likely a good choice, if I'm shooting for a lung shot I think there are better choices.
GMX's produced drop on spot kills.
TSX's some drop on spot and some went 30-50 yards.
E-tip only on 1 moose, disappointed in performance, seemed like very little expansion.
So on an average with only a short time frame of use and a small sample of game animals. I'd have to say my results are probably fairly average to what would be expected from most any lead core bullet.
With so many variables in type of game and type of hunting it's hard for me to make a definitive assessment on their performance in general.
If I shoot for bone mono's are most likely a good choice, if I'm shooting for a lung shot I think there are better choices.
Here is one of the studies as well as links to some U.S state goverment web sites with additional studies and recommendations:
https://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/hac/pha/LeadFragmentsinVenison/Venison and Lead HC 110408.pdf
https://www.nps.gov/pinn/learn/nature/leadinfo.htm
https://www.michigan.gov/documents/mdch/Lead_in_Venison_for_Families_310195_7.pdf
https://www.ndhealth.gov/lead/venison/
https://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/hac/pha/LeadFragmentsinVenison/Venison and Lead HC 110408.pdf
https://www.nps.gov/pinn/learn/nature/leadinfo.htm
https://www.michigan.gov/documents/mdch/Lead_in_Venison_for_Families_310195_7.pdf
https://www.ndhealth.gov/lead/venison/
- Location
- Haliburton County, Central Ontario
The proverbial 'ballistics' thread that morphed into the 'toxic lead' thread. The end.
Because I’m around guns and shooting so much, I had my lead level checked. My lead levels are slightly elevated. I now use lead wipes on my hands and face. And I use all copper bullets for most of my hunting, at least when I can.
Interesting. Didn't know that.
After two "fail to expand" TTSX incidents by friends, I am just a bit leery of the expansion dependability of the monometals.
I have been using Partitions for several decades without any failure to expands, I learned to depend on them a lot.
The Accubond, and the Scirocco II, not to mention the A-Frame, are all reliable expanders at any reasonable velocity.
As far as lead in the meat goes, I believe it is blown a bit out of proportion to the reality of matters. Dave.
I have been using Partitions for several decades without any failure to expands, I learned to depend on them a lot.
The Accubond, and the Scirocco II, not to mention the A-Frame, are all reliable expanders at any reasonable velocity.
As far as lead in the meat goes, I believe it is blown a bit out of proportion to the reality of matters. Dave.
Trophy Bonded Tipped seem like a best of both worlds bullet. Not much lead in them, but enough to make them upset and expand very easily. Solid copper base to keep penetrating, and they retain a whole bunch of their weight so that lead in the animal (if someone worries about it) will be minimal. Seems hard to go wrong there. Except paying a bundle for a box of bullets but the fancy ones tend to last a few years anyway.
Suppose if anyone is wildlife conscious it could still end up left behind in a gutpile but otherwise, seems to be a good do-all.
Suppose if anyone is wildlife conscious it could still end up left behind in a gutpile but otherwise, seems to be a good do-all.
They're cheaper than Barnes or Accubonds
True, wish I could find 7mm projectiles though!
The only source I have on loaded ammo (7mm-08) is about $50 a box plus shipping...which is actually at least cheaper than what Can Tire sells Winchester ballistic silvertip for, by a buck or two.
