I haven't used them in the 338, but of you shoot 250 gamekings, then probably 200 or 210 gr TSX bullets would penetrate more. The general rule of thumb, is use at least one size lighter than other bullets even other premiums like the nosler partition.
Discussion about bullet performance
- Thread starter Brambles
- Start date
I haven't used them in the 338, but of you shoot 250 gamekings, then probably 200 or 210 gr TSX bullets would penetrate more. The general rule of thumb, is use at least one size lighter than other bullets even other premiums like the nosler partition.
None, but I have shot a few with 165 gr Sierra Gamekings and have never lost an animal after shooting it behind the front shoulder. I have only shot one moose but have shot a bunch of deer and quite a few elk. I have hit the shoulder a couple of times an the meat destruction was criminal.
Eagleye, your observations-as always- carry weight with me.
I am surprised that the TSX caused so much damage as to lose the whole shoulder to you, as it seems to be one of the "stick together" bullets that do great harm but don't bloodshot as uch meat as a more frangibl bullet (Partitons included) but I suppose, in that scenario, there was no other shot except a shoulder shot anyway, and any bullet woud have done the same thing .
The last edible animal saw shot with a TSX through the shoulders ground up about 3lbs of meat, not enough to get excited about!
The TSX seems to operate alot like a large caliber rifle with big bullets "you can eat right up to the hole"I have no doubt that shooting a gameking into an elk shoulder woudl provide some bloodshot meat!! We are talking about 2 COMPLETELY diferent bullets here!
I have no doubt that shooting a gameking into an elk shoulder woudl provide some bloodshot meat!! We are talking about 2 COMPLETELY diferent bullets here!
Totally but my point is the Gameking bullet when placed behind the front shoulder has always put the animal on the ground in short order. If one needs heavy mass to make the bullet mushroom correctly then I would have to question the usefulness of that particular bullet for me in a hunting situation as I aim for the head, neck or behind the front shoulder depending upon the situation.
Only recently have I tried Nozler Partitions and I have went back to Gamekings.
I feel the Nozler Partition bullet doesn't preform any better than Gamekings and the price difference is huge. I have used Gamekings since I started reloading and that has got to be be over twenty years.
If your shot is placed behind the shoulder broadside, your choice of bullet is almost irrelevant, any common hunting bullet of appropriate calibre and weight will work. Where a premium bullet really shines is when the shot angle isn't perfect, where the bullet has to really penetrate some distance to reach the vitals like quatering or head on shots. I am way more comfortable shooting an animal knowing that if my bullet has to shatter a shoulder knuckle or work it's way through some of the body cavity to reach the heart/lungs that it will reach it. That is where TSX or partitions and the other premiums really shine.
With all the talk about animals getting away after being shot behind the front shoulder I wonder if the bullet is not encountering the mass to make it preform correctly. I wonder if, upon hitting a rib or going between a rib, a pin hole is the result.
X2
You don't need a premium for braodside rib shots. When everythign is perfect, the premium doesn't offer a huge advantage. However, when things go wrong, they are invaluable.
All what talk?
Unless I am missing something, only ROA has mentioned anything of the sort.
One of the things that I find is if you use a large enough caliber, for the game being hunted, plus a bullet high in sectional density, then the bullet performance kind of just happens.
IMHO any of the various .30 calibers (.308, .30-06, .300Mags) are perfect for deer size game. It really doesn't matter what bullet you use; factory Winchester Silver Tips or handloads from Speer, Sierra, Hornady etc...
I am not a fan of .270 caliber (or smaller) for deer. I know that .243, .260, .270 etc... will kill any deer, if the bullet is placed correctly, but none of those "dink" calibers will perform as reliably as a .30 cal.
I shot a nice whitetail a couple years ago with my .270 Sendero and the shots were perfectly placed. I was amazed at how small those .277 calibers holes were; I mean the wound channels. Maybe it was the bullet, 140gr Nosler Accubonds. Perhaps because they are a bonded bullet, they held together too well and did not expand as dramatically as a lighter constructed bullet. Range could have contributed to that as well, since the shots were just over 200 yards. In that situation a 130gr Hornady IL might have punched larger holes (wound channels).
For black bear, elk and moose I believe ideal calibers are .338, .35, .375. For the same obvious reasons. It will not really matter which bullet you choose; in these calibers damn near anything will do.
I have always had reservations about the Barnes X bullets. I believe the Barnes X is a great bullet, when used in larger calibers, only problem is the Nosler Partition is a better bullet in any caliber you or I own.
I have finally got a rifle and cartridge, where I think the Barnes X bullets will work to my satisfaction. That is with my .405Win (cuz Nosler doesn't make a .405 Partition). I think the 325gr Barnes X, in that caliber would be good. I haven't got any yet because WSS was sold out of them. I may get some. In the meantime I got 300gr Hornady FN, which depending upon how they perform, I may just stay with.
Elmer Keith.
IMHO any of the various .30 calibers (.308, .30-06, .300Mags) are perfect for deer size game. It really doesn't matter what bullet you use; factory Winchester Silver Tips or handloads from Speer, Sierra, Hornady etc...
I am not a fan of .270 caliber (or smaller) for deer. I know that .243, .260, .270 etc... will kill any deer, if the bullet is placed correctly, but none of those "dink" calibers will perform as reliably as a .30 cal.
I shot a nice whitetail a couple years ago with my .270 Sendero and the shots were perfectly placed. I was amazed at how small those .277 calibers holes were; I mean the wound channels. Maybe it was the bullet, 140gr Nosler Accubonds. Perhaps because they are a bonded bullet, they held together too well and did not expand as dramatically as a lighter constructed bullet. Range could have contributed to that as well, since the shots were just over 200 yards. In that situation a 130gr Hornady IL might have punched larger holes (wound channels).
For black bear, elk and moose I believe ideal calibers are .338, .35, .375. For the same obvious reasons. It will not really matter which bullet you choose; in these calibers damn near anything will do.
I have always had reservations about the Barnes X bullets. I believe the Barnes X is a great bullet, when used in larger calibers, only problem is the Nosler Partition is a better bullet in any caliber you or I own.
I have finally got a rifle and cartridge, where I think the Barnes X bullets will work to my satisfaction. That is with my .405Win (cuz Nosler doesn't make a .405 Partition). I think the 325gr Barnes X, in that caliber would be good. I haven't got any yet because WSS was sold out of them. I may get some. In the meantime I got 300gr Hornady FN, which depending upon how they perform, I may just stay with.
Elmer Keith.
he kind of doofus who never wants a wounded animal to get away!
I know at least three long time big game hunters who used to always go for the hear/lung shot, but after years (decades in two cases) of this they each eventually had a moose or caribou that they "hit perfectly" in the boiler, run away and never get recovered. They all switched to front shoulder only shots and have never had anything get away again. LOTS of guys are front shoulder shooters, and both shoulders is better. My father is a front shoulder guy and he acually cut away and weighed the lost meat from a broadside hit on a moose with a 375 H&H with 300 grain silvertip; lost meat exactly 4.5 lbs.
I don't know anyone who shoots for the front shoulders who regrets it, but I do know a few heart/lung guys who wished they had shot for the shoulders.
The farthest I ever had a moose get myself was about fifteen yards and that was with no heart left after being hit with a .338 win mag with 250 gr Sierra Gameking. All my other moose hit the dirt within ten feet of being hit and died, but they were all shot on an angle through the lungs and onwards into the front shoulder. If I can get a heart lung shot AND a shoulder I'll take it, but if I have to take a pure broadside shot I'll take the shoulder.
On a side note I don't buy into the whole "shock" killing animals much either. My moose shot right through the heart never even flinched, just kept walking and then flopped over after about eight moose paces. I've seen plently of bears and moose get hit with 300 mags, 338 mags and 375 mags and unless there is major bone broken, or a brain/spine shot, they just run like hell (sometimes the moose just keep on walking like nothing happened) and die later, sometimes 150 to 200 yards. I've also seen a man hit a moose through the heart and the moose trot 30 yards to a fast moving river and get to the bank and then fall in the water and sink and be lost. Then I saw a grown man sit on a rock and cry.
When I do the shooting I think biomechanics - no brain or no spine or no shoulders to walk on means animal falls down right now; everything else you're taking your chances.
Double lung shot is the best shot IMHO. Hitting a shoulder in the process is okay, but I never try to hit the shoulder. If I hit the shoulder then so what? The amount of meat that might be lost is minimal compared to what you just anchored.
I have never attempted a head shot...
I do not try for the neck...
I have never attempted a head shot...
I do not try for the neck...
Republic of Alberta
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- ,location, location
Just wondering how many of you wash off the lungs and heart with water after gutting to see what kind of damage is actually done? I usually do, and then I cross section the wound to see what actually happened.
I always hear people talk about turning the insides to "soup" or "jello". The body cavity always looks like soup when it is full of blood, especially if it is clotted. I can see how people mistakenly believe that a lot more damage is done than actually exists if they don't clean things up a bit.
I should have taken a picture of the TSX wound in that deer's lungs. It really would have been worth 1000 words. I think that I am going to start doing that actually. One thing that has always pissed me off is people taking pictures of recovered bullets, then based on what the bullet looks like they determine how successful it was. Retarded. Taking pictures of the wound, that is money shot baby.
I always hear people talk about turning the insides to "soup" or "jello". The body cavity always looks like soup when it is full of blood, especially if it is clotted. I can see how people mistakenly believe that a lot more damage is done than actually exists if they don't clean things up a bit.
I should have taken a picture of the TSX wound in that deer's lungs. It really would have been worth 1000 words. I think that I am going to start doing that actually. One thing that has always pissed me off is people taking pictures of recovered bullets, then based on what the bullet looks like they determine how successful it was. Retarded. Taking pictures of the wound, that is money shot baby.
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I usually do lok at the heart and lungs in detail, se where the bullety passed, and see the damage. on The moose last year the TSX shredded the lung bags and tore apart the top of the heart. similar damage to heart/lungs on deer.
Northman999
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Southern Yukon
I go out of my way to find the entry wound on my animal and basically track the bullet through the animal and carefully examine actual damage done to the tissue. I like to be able to have a good visual in my head of what happened as the bullet passed through the animal. I grew up hunting with my father who used handloads in his 375 H&H and I used handloads in my 338 Win Mag and so recovered bullets were generally a rarity. I totally agree that looking at the bullet is not particularly useful in assessing actual damage to the animal. It is nice to see if the bullet held together etc, but then how do you compare a bullet that might have hit an inch thick leg bone to one to one that just entered the chest cavity from the front and then slid on through internals? It's totally secondary what the bullet looks like really.
- Location
- Vancouver Island BC
One of the things that I find is if you use a large enough caliber, for the game being hunted, plus a bullet high in sectional density, then the bullet performance kind of just happens.
IMHO any of the various .30 calibers (.308, .30-06, .300Mags) are perfect for deer size game. It really doesn't matter what bullet you use; factory Winchester Silver Tips or handloads from Speer, Sierra, Hornady etc...
I am not a fan of .270 caliber (or smaller) for deer. I know that .243, .260, .270 etc... will kill any deer, if the bullet is placed correctly, but none of those "dink" calibers will perform as reliably as a .30 cal.
I shot a nice whitetail a couple years ago with my .270 Sendero and the shots were perfectly placed. I was amazed at how small those .277 calibers holes were; I mean the wound channels. Maybe it was the bullet, 140gr Nosler Accubonds. Perhaps because they are a bonded bullet, they held together too well and did not expand as dramatically as a lighter constructed bullet. Range could have contributed to that as well, since the shots were just over 200 yards. In that situation a 130gr Hornady IL might have punched larger holes (wound channels).
For black bear, elk and moose I believe ideal calibers are .338, .35, .375. For the same obvious reasons. It will not really matter which bullet you choose; in these calibers damn near anything will do.
I have always had reservations about the Barnes X bullets. I believe the Barnes X is a great bullet, when used in larger calibers, only problem is the Nosler Partition is a better bullet in any caliber you or I own.
I have finally got a rifle and cartridge, where I think the Barnes X bullets will work to my satisfaction. That is with my .405Win (cuz Nosler doesn't make a .405 Partition). I think the 325gr Barnes X, in that caliber would be good. I haven't got any yet because WSS was sold out of them. I may get some. In the meantime I got 300gr Hornady FN, which depending upon how they perform, I may just stay with.
Elmer Keith.
Not a fan of the 270???.... "dink" caliber
.... will not perform as well as a 30 caliber...that's just about the stupidest comment from a hunter that I ever heard.
I guess I better go wake up about 15 moose that I shot with a .270 and tell them to go back to the swamp.
