Looking for suggestions on a PRS rig

[Maple57]

223 is a possibility but I don't think I have every seen anyone shoot well with a 223 once the wind picks up and spotting hits gets pretty darn tough once you stretch things out there. The recoil of the 6.5 Creed is pretty light (and this is coming from a guy who shoots a 18pd 6Br) and it is very common cartridge.
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The tactical class winner in Meaford 3 years ago was won by a guy with a 223 if I'm not mistaken.

The heavy 223 rounds seated long as described can hold their own in tactical class for a couple reasons...

1) the 308 is limited to 2800 FPS but the 223 is limited to 3000 and you can hit 2900 easy enough with 75 grain Hornady EDLs G1 BC .467
2) the heavy 223 rounds have close BC to the <= 175 grain 308s... the Berger 168 Hybrid Target is about the best at .515, so it's better but not that much better.
3) Calling your shots is easier with a properly configured 223 since there is less recoil.
4) Less recoil allows for better stamina and endurance for senior class guys like me.

To your point... One of the problems I had 2 years ago with 223 was the spotter missed some of my hits because the round was so small.

Last year was better because they had indicator lights, that helped a lot.

 

[rugbydave]

The tactical class winner in Meaford 3 years ago was won by a guy with a 223 if I'm not mistaken.

The heavy 223 rounds seated long as described can hold their own in tactical class for a couple reasons...

1) the 308 is limited to 2800 FPS but the 223 is limited to 3000 and you can hit 2900 easy enough with 75 grain Hornady EDLs G1 BC .467
2) the heavy 223 rounds have close BC to the <= 175 grain 308s... the Berger 168 Hybrid Target is about the best at .515, so it's better but not that much better.
3) Calling your shots is easier with a properly configured 223 since there is less recoil.
4) Less recoil allows for better stamina and endurance for senior class guys like me.

To your point... One of the problems I had 2 years ago with 223 was the spotter missed some of my hits because the round was so small.

Last year was better because they had indicator lights, that helped a lot.

If you're going to shoot tactical, nothing touches the bc of the 175 RDF (G7=.270) and the 178 ELDM is close behind. Build a heavy gun and have at it. That being said, outside of matches like Meaford (that have a large Tac class) setting up to shoot in Tac is kinda useless as there will only be a few guys out of 100+ shooting Tac. Just get a 6.5 Creed and be done with it. The only disadvantage vs a Tac class round (.223 or .308) is barrel life and there you need to be honest with yourself, will you actually shoot 3k rounds in a year? If not, it's a moot point. If you really get the bug you'll end up re-barelling in some flavour of 6mm anyways, haha.

 

[Maple57]

If you're going to shoot tactical, nothing touches the bc of the 175 RDF (G7=.270) and the 178 ELDM is close behind. Build a heavy gun and have at it. That being said, outside of matches like Meaford (that have a large Tac class) setting up to shoot in Tac is kinda useless as there will only be a few guys out of 100+ shooting Tac. Just get a 6.5 Creed and be done with it. The only disadvantage vs a Tac class round (.223 or .308) is barrel life and there you need to be honest with yourself, will you actually shoot 3k rounds in a year? If not, it's a moot point. If you really get the bug you'll end up re-barelling in some flavour of 6mm anyways, haha.

I must agree...

The biggest downside to TAC division is they do not get awards within how they rank in their division.
Everyone goes to the prize table in the order of score regardless of division, so your best chance at a good award is with the best ballistic performance per recoil dollar.

I'm so deep in 223 and 308 at this point that it just doesn't make sense for me to start into a hot 6mm or 6.5mm, but a younger guy should.

As for the 175 Grain RDF... it has a nice BC but I have not been able to reach 2800 FPS with it, so I prefer the slightly lighter Berger 168 or Hornady 168 ELD just for the little speed advantage I can get with a BC that's close and a little less recoil.

 

[kthomas]

The tactical class winner in Meaford 3 years ago was won by a guy with a 223 if I'm not mistaken.

The heavy 223 rounds seated long as described can hold their own in tactical class for a couple reasons...

1) the 308 is limited to 2800 FPS but the 223 is limited to 3000 and you can hit 2900 easy enough with 75 grain Hornady EDLs G1 BC .467
2) the heavy 223 rounds have close BC to the <= 175 grain 308s... the Berger 168 Hybrid Target is about the best at .515, so it's better but not that much better.
3) Calling your shots is easier with a properly configured 223 since there is less recoil.
4) Less recoil allows for better stamina and endurance for senior class guys like me.

To your point... One of the problems I had 2 years ago with 223 was the spotter missed some of my hits because the round was so small.

Last year was better because they had indicator lights, that helped a lot.

People have been using .223 for years in PRS matches. They can certainly do well in certain matches, usually the matches with a shorter COF. Not too uncommon to see a .223 or two in the top 30, or sometimes even a top 10 in a PRS match.

It's ballistically not the best solution to what we do, but it's certainly usable. The newer high BC .22 projectiles certainly help. Some people are combining the newer projectiles with chamberings such as .223AI or .22 BR/Dasher. Personally, if I wanted to take on a new cartridge, I would toy with making a .22 BRA.

 

[rugbydave]

I must agree...

The biggest downside to TAC division is they do not get awards within how they rank in their division.
Everyone goes to the prize table in the order of score regardless of division, so your best chance at a good award is with the best ballistic performance per recoil dollar.

I'm so deep in 223 and 308 at this point that it just doesn't make sense for me to start into a hot 6mm or 6.5mm, but a younger guy should.

As for the 175 Grain RDF... it has a nice BC but I have not been able to reach 2800 FPS with it, so I prefer the slightly lighter Berger 168 or Hornady 168 ELD just for the little speed advantage I can get with a BC that's close and a little less recoil.

Depends on the match but some of the big matches call up the Tac division winner after the top 5. In any case, the biggest downside, imo, is only having a very small pool of guys to compare yourself to. It is fun beating guys running better calibers with a .308 though, haha.

We are starting to run some matches out here that are all 600 and in and I'll most likely be running my trainer barrel in .223 with 75s for that.

43.3 gr of Varget in a LC case gets me 2750ish fps (which is the RTC speed limit) out of a couple different 26" pipes.

 

[rgv]

I would only consider the 223 if money and recoil are large factors to you. The downsides in match conditions outweigh the upsides.

I like the 308 for PRS. You only give up 10-12 points on a two day match to open guns.

 

[Maple57]

To be perfectly honest with myself, I have never walked off the firing point and blamed my caliber for my performance.

I manage to position myself well inside the top 25 percent of all calibers out there at Meaford anyway, and I've just been shooting a poorly balanced RPR in 223 and without validated drop data.

This year I have found myself with a nice place to practice on steel out to 800 yards and I now have a Garmin 701 to help stay in tune with the changes.

I'm putting together a real nice 223 that I hope will help, if I can get it done in time. If not, I have a new Cadex in 308 that I have yet to use in competition.

In F-Class I have seen many times that FTR shooters do better than the F Open guys, so again, I don't think it's all about what we see in the ballistics data.

Sure there is something there, but I think it means less than we sometimes want to accept.

I don't think I would rank 3 places better if I started running a 6.5 Creedmoor.... But who knows.

 

[rugbydave]

To be perfectly honest with myself, I have never walked off the firing point and blamed my caliber for my performance.

I manage to position myself well inside the top 25 percent of all calibers out there at Meaford anyway, and I've just been shooting a poorly balanced RPR in 223 and without validated drop data.

This year I have found myself with a nice place to practice on steel out to 800 yards and I now have a Garmin 701 to help stay in tune with the changes.

I'm putting together a real nice 223 that I hope will help, if I can get it done in time. If not, I have a new Cadex in 308 that I have yet to use in competition.

In F-Class I have seen many times that FTR shooters do better than the F Open guys, so again, I don't think it's all about what we see in the ballistics data.

Sure there is something there, but I think it means less than we sometimes want to accept.

I don't think I would rank 3 places better if I started running a 6.5 Creedmoor.... But who knows.

Totally depends on the venue and the day. I've shot matches where it wouldn't have mattered at all what caliber I was shooting, there was no wind or it was pretty steady or easy to read. I've also shot matches (with a .308) where the the wind is shifty enough that you keep dropping shots off either side of the plate. Eastern Washington can have some pretty savage winds. In any case, once you've settled on a caliber, the best is to just shoot the piss out of it and get real comfortable with it. People do tend to chase "the new shiny" a bit too much.