I will do an accuracy report on the Maple Ridge Armory pencil barrel soon, but first impressions are that I can get just over 2" 10-shot groups @ 100 yards with 55gr Federal AE bulk ammo. Also bought a box of Hornady 73gr ELD and Nosler 60 gr match ammo that I will test as well.
ATRS Modern Sporter... Some Initial Observations
- Thread starter angryeyebrows
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I don't expect much from 55gr FMJ junk ammo.
My ACR with a stainless barrel and my AR180B are about the same with this ammo, the ACR does much better with quality ammo though so this MRA barrel should be no different.
It's really light out front with the spiral flute barrel and CF handguard
angryeyebrows
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I don't expect much from 55gr FMJ junk ammo.
My ACR with a stainless barrel and my AR180B are about the same with this ammo, the ACR does much better with quality ammo though so this MRA barrel should be no different.
It's really light out front with the spiral flute barrel and CF handguard
Your barrel is also stainless though right? Mine is nitrided. It would be interesting to see if there are accuracy differences, between the two, using quality ammo. The nitride process changes the surface of the metal, essentially hardening it. I remember when I first nitrided a barrel many years ago, we spent time and effort properly breaking it in prior to the QPQ nitride process. Any imperfections will be fairly permanent once the process is complete. The upside is that the life of the bore is drastically extended. The downside is that how ever it shoots, it shoots. There is no more break in.
After break in and Nitride, did it maintain accuracy?
Did you handload for that barrel?
I don't believe in barrel break in anyway. These are supposedly hand lapped and air gauged so they shouldn't need anything.
I wish nitriding was an option when I ordered this one. I would have paid the extra for it.
I've got two stainless barrels for the MS and two more for my ACR, maybe I can find somewhere I can get a multi barrel discount and get them all done at once
angryeyebrows
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The barrel was a Krieger blank, machined by Ian Herron, for a Swiss Arms carbine. It was the second one we ever did, with a machined in flash hider. Ian meticulously fired and cleaned the barrel multiple times, prior to the nitride process. I had contacted a number of companies in Canada to see who would be willing to try the QPQ process on a rifle barrel and finally found one, although it was going to be relatively pricy for one barrel. At the time, no one was offering a nitride barrel, so the process was quite new. Even in the US only a few companies had tried it. Glock has essentially been doing this to their parts for a long time, so it was worth the risk. In theory, as long as the barrel was clean and well made (no burrs or marks in the bore), the process wouldn't change the physical dimensions at all, just make the metal very hard. I linked up with another company willing to try a run of AR15 barrels, so we spread out the cost. The final results were excellent. The Swiss gun was easily capable of +/- 2" with a 5 round group of military 63gr ball ammo. Never hand loaded anything, but I imagine it could have been a 1" gun. Fun fact, this was the second non-res Swiss carbine in ever made. The previous one, we did was the first, and was assigned an FRT number. Here's a pic of the second gun. Oh yeah we cerakoted it Patriot Brown.
Interesting about doing QPQ on 416SS. We had actions done despite the warnings of the metal treater about 416 and did some testing ourselves. Sure enough, it cracks and chips like crazy. Works amazing on 4140, but 416 was sketchy AF. I'm curious how this is working, and what it looks like under a bore scope.
That was a range session with my modern sporter. 5 shot groups. It has a Norinco 20” barrel. Best I’ve got out of it yet is it a 1 1/8 group with Norc bulk ammo. Using a 4 power optic. Not bad performance from a $100 barrel. Couldn’t stabilize the 62g. And in my experience the IMI never groups well. Even my colt Canada is 4 moa with it.
This one was my best group to date.
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angryeyebrows
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Not sure about the steel with the blank, but it seemed to work fine. I no longer have the rifle, so I couldn't tell you how the wear is.
SO you seem to have experienced the injection molded plastic issue?
Apparently you have never heard of tolerance differences and variation from manufacturer to manufacturer?
As you found with your Magpul grip despite there being some uniform dimensions with regards to parts being made, there still can be and are variations in tolerances.
Anti rotation tabs when used correctly require fitting to the upper, typically be removing small amounts of material until the tabs properly engage the upper. If they have any gap between the upper and the tabs they are not doing their job correctly. I still maintain that they should not be necessary if the method of attachment is engineered correctly.
I am surprised you would tolerate tabs sticking out. They are unsightly and could be sharp and you could contact you hand on a sharp edge. I am sorry but the fact is just because some military somewhere uses something it does NOT mean it is the best. Governments around the world have severely screwed up adopting issued kit.
PinaKaleada
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There's tolerance, and there's out-of-spec. Plastic parts have less of a variance so I'd think that it's the machining that's out of spec. Your understanding about anti-rotation tabs is not correct either. Take the DD RIS II tab as example, the distance between the left and right tab is so large, that it's not meant to touch the upper. It's there incase theres any backing out of barrel nut, the gun will still function and not "disassemble", even if the handguard is rotating slightly.
onetwentyish
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It seems like the real issue here for the most part stems from personal preference and familiarity with basic forged AR receiver sets. Most of the design cues that OP has a grievance with are percieved design flaws where as others and ATRS see as improvements to either functionality, aesthetics, or economics same as most billet AR manufacturers do.
Op, you have every right to voice your opinion and preferences, I agree on a few of them, but your post reads semi-combatitivly like you are suggesting ATRS "made it wrong" when you could have made a more neutral observation accompanied by a comment of your personal preferences. That would have saved alot of this squabbling. Haha
I do agree with your break down though, but I am satisfied with the design enough to have heavily invested in the platform in 2 purchase orders of multiples now. Might also have my machinist buddy do some tweaking as time goes on and projects evolve and come to fruition...
Op, you have every right to voice your opinion and preferences, I agree on a few of them, but your post reads semi-combatitivly like you are suggesting ATRS "made it wrong" when you could have made a more neutral observation accompanied by a comment of your personal preferences. That would have saved alot of this squabbling. Haha
I do agree with your break down though, but I am satisfied with the design enough to have heavily invested in the platform in 2 purchase orders of multiples now. Might also have my machinist buddy do some tweaking as time goes on and projects evolve and come to fruition...
angryeyebrows
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THIS. In addition to what is mentioned in this post, the tabs prevent the gas tube from being pinched, should the rail come loose and rotate with great force. All of the TOP manufacturers, military contractors or not, have engineered some form of anti-rotation into their designs. Noveske use a pin, DD uses machined tabs on the bolt up collar, Geissele uses tabs on the rail with set screws, BCM uses a totally separate steel insert. All of these companies would not waste time and money if they didn't see a need for the system.
You are correct about some of my observations. If ATRS loves their sharp mag well due to aesthetics, then so be it. I don't, and I'd prefer to have something more friendly to grab. This can for sure fall under the "to each, their own" category. However, there should be no gap when installing the front take down pin. The shoulder of the pin should make contact with the side of the lower when fully closed. I see that as an error. Having the cutout for the charging handle directly below where the tabs on the handle will ride when the bolt is locked to the rear, I see as a poor design choice. If the normal cutout in the upper had to be relocated forward due to dimensional changes, why not remove it all together and have the handle pull directly out the rear? Is there a requirement for the cutout?
With exception of the two things I mentioned above, I think ATRS made it very well...of course some things I would have done differently, but that is their call. I'm not a firearms manufacturer. I actually tried REALLY hard to not be combative in the initial post! I guess I'm just an abrasive person. I didn't mean for the post to come off very negative at all, but instead, just wanted to share my opinions/observations. This post is exactly what I experienced when building my rifle with their receiver sets. I really do like the rifle and I GREATLY appreciate ATRS for bringing it to market. People on this forum get all triggered when the read something even remotely critical, especially when they've invested their own money into the product. I've seen it here a thousand times over the years. In any case, I'm curious as to what specifically you agree with? Do you own one of these things? I've sent ATRS an email and linked the post, but no reply yet...probably too busy cranking out receivers which is good. No one has replied about my charging handle observation.
angryeyebrows
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RCO on board for some field testing.
Well put angryeyebrows.
I am also curious about the charging handle tabs, as I have had it catch a few times while locking to the rear, but otherwise I have no issues. I would catch the tabs more when I was using a stock that almost forced the handle upwards a tiny bit due to the cheek height if the stock wasn't extended fully.
I am also curious about the charging handle tabs, as I have had it catch a few times while locking to the rear, but otherwise I have no issues. I would catch the tabs more when I was using a stock that almost forced the handle upwards a tiny bit due to the cheek height if the stock wasn't extended fully.
angryeyebrows
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Thank you. That is exactly what I think is happening. Any slight upward pressure on the charging handle, when pushing it forward, with the bolt locked rear, will cause it to dip into the cutout. If I'm aggressive with a drill, the handle will be forced back into the proper track, but it's still rough feeling when it tries to nose dive into the cutout.
Overall heck of a review. Also agree with you on the nitride. I bought a Criterion nitride barrel for my Stag 10 build. Will see how it works but good reviews form others and I like the longevity of it. Plus it was the right twist/length etc for my carbine.
Interesting about that magpul grip not working out. Glad the replacement did. I personally really like ergo grips on my AR rifles. Pretty much ever since I bought my first LMT MRP rifle, this has been my goto for my AR rifles. I find they are the most forgiving for pistol grips in terms of fit as well since there is some flex. I also had to use a few extra washers in my BCL 102 when putting one on.
Don't take any of the negative stuff too seriously here. All fair comments about the product from your perspective. Others might disagree.
I personally appreciate your review for a couple of reasons:
1) Hopefully small things that could be improved will be. This is a big seller for ATRS
2) I plan on eventually buying one. That's right, the "hater" crap is exactly that. It's crap. If something is decent and not priced ridiculously then I will definitely consider getting one. I've stated this from the beginning. I have no brand loyalty. Right now this product offers the best option for a non restricted as close to the AR15 as possible. The price is competitive, and I get to use my own parts, so I don't get price raped on that end either. It's a decent solution from what I'm seeing.
From your review it seems that a few minor tweaks and it will be an excellent solution.
I also use the magwell when shooting AR carbines for prone without a bipod and even kneeling. Not all the time, as I also use a stubby vertical grip for standing etc. But the magwell hold has it's advantaged from certain shooting positions. It's not obsolete and should be retained.
Thank you for the review. Great thread.
On a side note. If you want to clean up that B5 Sopmod stock then some brake fluid for 10 minutes and a brush will clean it up.
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angryeyebrows
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Thanks. I appreciate that.
I hope I hear back from ATRS sooner or later, and I hope that they take my observations to heart. As a business owner my self, if a customer has comments on our tactical gear, I always wanna hear them! Good or bad. It's the only way to improve things.
As for the B5 stock, the whole rifle is just gonna get painted...as soon as I'm 100% set on the parts! Using the break fluid to clean the paint, does that mess with the polymer at all? I remember we used something to strip a bunch of rifles of paint and the plastic looked fugly after.
