M-14 accuracy
- Thread starter Wally
- Start date
m-14
I had one of my norcs worked over by K Keon, basically he NM'd it. with a 6x leupy and my first load developed w/ 168gr bullets i am getting 1" to 1 1/4" 5shot groups at 100yds.
prior to the work i was gettin 3" groups with SA surplus.
cueball
I had one of my norcs worked over by K Keon, basically he NM'd it. with a 6x leupy and my first load developed w/ 168gr bullets i am getting 1" to 1 1/4" 5shot groups at 100yds.
prior to the work i was gettin 3" groups with SA surplus.cueball
JDForBrkFst
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Roughly North Central AB
Correct me if I'm wrong (as well as a few other gunnutz I've talked to about this) but isn't that a little hard on the gas system? I was always told to stay within the 147, 150 area.
Well I think the FIRST thing I should do is lighten that trigger. for some reason I SUCK at shooting anything with a heavy trigger.
Nahh, I think the mil-spec is 163. If I'm wrong someone will jump on me..........
Nahh, I think the mil-spec is 163. If I'm wrong someone will jump on me..........
I thought it was 147gr? Isn't 163 for match loads, which as far as I know are a-ok; just as long as you have a plentiful supply of parts handy.Well I think the FIRST thing I should do is lighten that trigger. for some reason I SUCK at shooting anything with a heavy trigger.
Nahh, I think the mil-spec is 163. If I'm wrong someone will jump on me..........
Has anyone made an adjustable gas nut for the M14 yet? I know the exist for the Garand, but I'm not to sure whether they can be had for these rifles.You could be right....
It pisses me off either way
A-hah! Glory be, they can be had.
When it comes to accurising M14 rifles, I've BTDT a few times ... or more.
Executive summary ...
for maximum return with minimum investment,
get a GI fiberglass stock, a trigger job, maybe a GI bolt, a GI op rod spring, a roundish op rod spring guide, and beat the snot out of your gas assembly splines instead of wasting money for shims and unitising. If you want a scope, expect to pay almost as much for the mount as you did for the rifle. If you want to stick with iron sights, get the US GI rear replacements [ either Garand or 14 ].
Anything other than that is [ on average ] going past the point of diminishing returns ... eg: you spend LOTS more money, and get VERY little in return..
As an example,
I just took two near new Norinco M-14s out to the range this afternoon to function test and sight in. Both had headspace @ .009" over 7.62 NATO GO.
With SA 7.62 NATO ball, I was getting about 3" groups.
HO ... HUM! Even after I mounted a 10X scope, groups were about the same.
Then I tried some Winchester Ranger 168 gr HPBT match ammo [ ex-RCMP LEO sniper issue ammo ] .
With the iron sighted 14, groups went down to about 2 1/2" ... HO HUM!! With my 4X scoped Rem 600, groups were 1 1/2" ... OK but not great.
BUT,
with the other/10X scoped 14, WHOOPEE!!
I shot 4 rounds into 1/2", .
Fifth shot was a flier pulled out to 2". Flier could have been the VERY heavy/creepy trigger??
I've noticed this before ...
some individual M14 rifles [ Chinese/Springfield or genuine US GI ] may have VERY dramatic ammunition preferences. With some 14s, some lots of BALL ammo can give you near match performance.
Before spending BIG bucks on all sorts of tweaks and tricks to make your 14 shoot better, I suggest you buy many Many MANY different brands of ammunition, and try them all under controlled conditions.
On average, through dozens of different 14s, my experience has been that Hirtenberger 7.62 NATO ball seems to be the BALL ammo of choice for many 14s.
For 168 GR HPBT match, the Winchester Ranger [ boxes marked for LE use only ] seem to be the load many 14s prefer.
Of course, I am speaking here of AVERAGES ...
through MANY different M14 rifles [ and by MANY I mean I've personally owned over three dozen genuine US GI 14s, about the same in Chinee 14s, and about half a dozen Sproingfield M1As ].
However,
all my experience isn't worth a fart in the wind compared to YOUR experience with YOUR rifle. Your individual rifle might prefer something entirely different ....
only way to find out is to spend small money on test ammo BEFORE you spend BIG money on "accurising"
And once you find what ammo your 14 prefers, buy lots more of that ammo BEFORE you spend money on tweaking and accessories
[ NOTE: for anyone who doesn't want to take my advice, I've got a $ 1000 JAE 100 stock for sale ]
as with any other advice you get FREE off the internet,
remember,
YMMV,
LAZ 1
[;{)
PS: for anyone shooting the old OLD Lake City Match ammunition, this ammo has a TAR type sealant around the bullets. Unfortunately, this ammo is getting on in years [ as am I ] and some of the tar some of the time has dried up. Which means this ammo can have erattic draw, which can mean vertical stringing. To cut group sizes down, simply seat all the bullets a couple of thou deeper. This cracks the sealant for all the bullets, and will give more consistent draw= more consistent velocities = more consistent groups.
just cause the adivice is free, don't mean it is worthless.
[;{)
Executive summary ...
for maximum return with minimum investment,
get a GI fiberglass stock, a trigger job, maybe a GI bolt, a GI op rod spring, a roundish op rod spring guide, and beat the snot out of your gas assembly splines instead of wasting money for shims and unitising. If you want a scope, expect to pay almost as much for the mount as you did for the rifle. If you want to stick with iron sights, get the US GI rear replacements [ either Garand or 14 ].
Anything other than that is [ on average ] going past the point of diminishing returns ... eg: you spend LOTS more money, and get VERY little in return..
As an example,
I just took two near new Norinco M-14s out to the range this afternoon to function test and sight in. Both had headspace @ .009" over 7.62 NATO GO.
With SA 7.62 NATO ball, I was getting about 3" groups.
HO ... HUM! Even after I mounted a 10X scope, groups were about the same.
Then I tried some Winchester Ranger 168 gr HPBT match ammo [ ex-RCMP LEO sniper issue ammo ] .
With the iron sighted 14, groups went down to about 2 1/2" ... HO HUM!! With my 4X scoped Rem 600, groups were 1 1/2" ... OK but not great.
BUT,
with the other/10X scoped 14, WHOOPEE!!
I shot 4 rounds into 1/2", .
Fifth shot was a flier pulled out to 2". Flier could have been the VERY heavy/creepy trigger??
I've noticed this before ...
some individual M14 rifles [ Chinese/Springfield or genuine US GI ] may have VERY dramatic ammunition preferences. With some 14s, some lots of BALL ammo can give you near match performance.
Before spending BIG bucks on all sorts of tweaks and tricks to make your 14 shoot better, I suggest you buy many Many MANY different brands of ammunition, and try them all under controlled conditions.
On average, through dozens of different 14s, my experience has been that Hirtenberger 7.62 NATO ball seems to be the BALL ammo of choice for many 14s.
For 168 GR HPBT match, the Winchester Ranger [ boxes marked for LE use only ] seem to be the load many 14s prefer.
Of course, I am speaking here of AVERAGES ...
through MANY different M14 rifles [ and by MANY I mean I've personally owned over three dozen genuine US GI 14s, about the same in Chinee 14s, and about half a dozen Sproingfield M1As ].
However,
all my experience isn't worth a fart in the wind compared to YOUR experience with YOUR rifle. Your individual rifle might prefer something entirely different ....
only way to find out is to spend small money on test ammo BEFORE you spend BIG money on "accurising"
And once you find what ammo your 14 prefers, buy lots more of that ammo BEFORE you spend money on tweaking and accessories
[ NOTE: for anyone who doesn't want to take my advice, I've got a $ 1000 JAE 100 stock for sale ]
as with any other advice you get FREE off the internet,
remember,
YMMV,
LAZ 1
[;{)
PS: for anyone shooting the old OLD Lake City Match ammunition, this ammo has a TAR type sealant around the bullets. Unfortunately, this ammo is getting on in years [ as am I ] and some of the tar some of the time has dried up. Which means this ammo can have erattic draw, which can mean vertical stringing. To cut group sizes down, simply seat all the bullets a couple of thou deeper. This cracks the sealant for all the bullets, and will give more consistent draw= more consistent velocities = more consistent groups.
just cause the adivice is free, don't mean it is worthless.
[;{)
+1
I've got two 305 (opposite serial #)
First one was shooting 147 gr SA at 3" with a occasional flier and American Eagle 150gr at 2" with the same flier (one on five)
Second one is shooting 1" and less, AND 3.3 MOA at 1000 m(1m group) with AE 150gr just with a round op rod, fiber stock, ARMS18 and Elite 3200.
So IMO with the M305, it's hit or miss...you can have a great gun or a lemon...
Someone run a serial number database somewhere but I can't find the thread.
No need to say that the first one is going SOCOM
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well, the us army marksman team went through just about every mod they could and their top load was 175 grain sierra match kings-and they have the ways and means to replace EVERY part in the rifle- now you want to shoot 180's in it?- it's fine for THE ODD BOX OF 20 ROUNDS but as a steady diet , no- 165 for hunting, 168 for match- as far as putting "mods" like adjustable gas nuts, heavier op rods ,whatever, if there was a mod to shoot 180s without damage to the rifle eventually i'm sure one of the guys either on this board or one of the guys stateside would have told us- remember, even the venerable garand also suffers from a BULLET WEIGHT LIMIT- beyond which you bend op-rods etc- there isn't all THAT much difference between 165s and 180s anyway, and you just have to live with it- anyway, i'm unwilling to overtax my m14s as it's really hard to get parts for ( i'm not talking chinese here) we're talking plural- if you must shoot 180s, get an action that will handle it- i use a savage 99- or learn to compensate- there's enough volumes of material on the net and published that short of new powders and bullets , every avenue of the m14 action has been explored extensively.You could be right....
It pisses me off either way
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
Suggestions to max the norc m14:
Gas cylinder shimming. Nice and tight so it doesn't move during recoil (still have kits)
Bedding front and rear so the metal is 'one' with the stock - orig wood stock does work just fine. Eventually, went with Boyds lam stocks cause they just look so good.
Tuning the trigger for a nice crisp let off - the so called NM trigger job.
handloads matched to the gas system. These rifles are very picky.
solid scope mount, rings and scope - cause open sights and my eyes are not friends anymore.
Once all done, it is quite possible to shoot MOAish out to 200yds with optics (I can't see that well with open sights). I was able to hit clays at 550yds. Not everytime but often enough to make things very interesting.
I shot 155gr Amax, Benchmark, Fed 210M but Win LR work too, Win brass (fireformed and neck sized but chamber checked after EVERY firing).
Not played with one for a while so can't say about present batches. The ones I shot and tuned all had match quality chambers.
Jerry
Gas cylinder shimming. Nice and tight so it doesn't move during recoil (still have kits)
Bedding front and rear so the metal is 'one' with the stock - orig wood stock does work just fine. Eventually, went with Boyds lam stocks cause they just look so good.
Tuning the trigger for a nice crisp let off - the so called NM trigger job.
handloads matched to the gas system. These rifles are very picky.
solid scope mount, rings and scope - cause open sights and my eyes are not friends anymore.
Once all done, it is quite possible to shoot MOAish out to 200yds with optics (I can't see that well with open sights). I was able to hit clays at 550yds. Not everytime but often enough to make things very interesting.
I shot 155gr Amax, Benchmark, Fed 210M but Win LR work too, Win brass (fireformed and neck sized but chamber checked after EVERY firing).
Not played with one for a while so can't say about present batches. The ones I shot and tuned all had match quality chambers.
Jerry
I had mine out today and I was getting 4-5in groups at the 100m once I was printing on the paper with Portugese and Spanish surplus.
The first thing I want to do is get a NM style front sight with a narrower blade. Does anyone know a good source for sights/flash hiders that match the colour of the Norc parkerizing?
The first thing I want to do is get a NM style front sight with a narrower blade. Does anyone know a good source for sights/flash hiders that match the colour of the Norc parkerizing?
maple_leaf_eh
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Four-five inch groups with ball ammo is pretty close to the acceptance standard. I have seen front sights that have been filed down - the sides only. Unless you can get a USGI NM front sight across the border, you're on your own for replacement parts.
Czech 7.62 x 51
That was not bad ammo, other than having to clean carefully. I still have about 8 boxes left and wish I could get more!
That was not bad ammo, other than having to clean carefully. I still have about 8 boxes left and wish I could get more!
I should have rephrased my question: are there any good guides out there. The last thing I would want to do is butcher my 'new' fiberglass stock. Is there a tried and true method that you learned from?
Just curious.
