Custom Rifle Woes-What Now?

Checking brass with a feeler gauge does not confirm headspacing, it confirms that the brass will chamber within SAMMI specifications. We use the go/no go gauges and have the proper tooling to confirm headspacing when chambering. Either way, even if the headspace was a bit high at 6-8 thou it would not drastically affect accuracy. However the rifle IS chambered at .003 thou as already mentioned. We would gladly go to Proof if we could confirm it was a bad barrel, however it was a single range trip and super easy to confirm that two different bullets where able to produce excellent results within the known velocity nodes. Text messages from yourself state you are still attempting existing loads from you 12 twist Savage and 120 grain, 140 grain, and 150 grain bullets. If a barrel clearly has preference for a weight class of bullets and a person keeps trying to shoot something it doesnt shoot well, is that the barrels fault or the builders fault? How can we go to Proof and as for a new barrel when it shoots sub 1/2 MOA with three different loads? And after 400+ rifles, we are reasonably comfortable saying our chambering practices and build practices are both adequate and reputable. This most definitely isnt our first rodeo.

We would love to help you out, but barrel manufacturers dont warranty barrels that shoot. And smiths dont change barrels out that shoot. If you want, bring it back in and I will do the full load development as discussed and send it back with the full load workup. If you want to see how to properly measure headspace, you are more than welcome.
 
Well I have won a Canadian PRS match with a IBI barrel on a gas gun. They are new and I am sure there are some growing pains as one would expect. I have shot sub .5 with my rifle.
 
I am not taking sides in this conflict,
But a drop in gauge is hardly a reference.

You need either a hornady headspace comparator or RCBs precision MIC, a GO gauge to calibrate either one,
Only then you’ll be able to see how many thous over the SAAMI minimum GO you are at, by comparing the reading off the true GO gauge and by comparing the reading off your fired case.

A chamber check gauge like shown is a very rough way to measure this, in my opinion.
 
stevesummit said:
Checking brass with a feeler gauge does not confirm headspacing, it confirms that the brass will chamber within SAMMI specifications. We use the go/no go gauges and have the proper tooling to confirm headspacing when chambering. Either way, even if the headspace was a bit high at 6-8 thou it would not drastically affect accuracy. However the rifle IS chambered at .003 thou as already mentioned. We would gladly go to Proof if we could confirm it was a bad barrel, however it was a single range trip and super easy to confirm that two different bullets where able to produce excellent results within the known velocity nodes. Text messages from yourself state you are still attempting existing loads from you 12 twist Savage and 120 grain, 140 grain, and 150 grain bullets. If a barrel clearly has preference for a weight class of bullets and a person keeps trying to shoot something it doesnt shoot well, is that the barrels fault or the builders fault? How can we go to Proof and as for a new barrel when it shoots sub 1/2 MOA with three different loads? And after 400+ rifles, we are reasonably comfortable saying our chambering practices and build practices are both adequate and reputable. This most definitely isnt our first rodeo.

We would love to help you out, but barrel manufacturers dont warranty barrels that shoot. And smiths dont change barrels out that shoot. If you want, bring it back in and I will do the full load development as discussed and send it back with the full load workup. If you want to see how to properly measure headspace, you are more than welcome.
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Steve I have been trying 162gr Eldx, 165 Sierra Gamechangers, 162 SST, and 168gr Berger Classic Hunter. I have done load development and found my accuracy nodes. I even tried copying Shanes 40gr Varget 162gr Eldx using brass he had prepped.

Unfortunately the 3 round groups don’t show anything. Try producing a decent 10 round group. Shane even admitted it didn’t group well with any of the factory ammunition.

I can get some heavy weight factory ammunition to prove it. I can also find another shooter or meet you at a range. This rifle is unpredictable and I has been very frustrating.
 
MartyK2500 said:
IBI are still new they didn’t have a chance to prove themselves yet.
Other people’s experience may differ, but mine rocks.

My 26’’ 308, 10 shot group under 2 minutes time, 300M, sub 1/2 moa
My 19’’ 223 medium heavy shoots 77 TMKs pretty tight in my auto loader

A buddy if mine purchased 3x 20’’ HBAR for his auto loaders
Seen them shoot ball ammo pretty well at 500M as a firsthand witness
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Glad you are having luck with them. My contacts, which include two gunsmiths and a shooter on arguably the most successful ELR team in NA have not had the same luck.

I know they've had issues with stress relieving, and supposedly that's been fixed. That I can't confirm. Too many great barrel companies out there for me to roll the dice on a product that's been known to not produce results.

Didn't mean to sidetrack the thread, but when a poster comes in and comments stating that they should ditch their brand of barrel, which is well proven with great past history, for a barrel company that's thus far had a very shaky track record - that deserves a comment.

The problem is most likely not the barrel.
 
Jamie said:
Well I have won a Canadian PRS match with a IBI barrel on a gas gun. They are new and I am sure there are some growing pains as one would expect. I have shot sub .5 with my rifle.
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A sanctioned PRS match or a "PRS" match? Sorry, but the shoots in Canada, some of which I've attended, are not the same quality as those in other places - which is to be expected of a match in a very grass roots region.

Refer to my other post where you don't need much more than a 1 MOA capable system to win a PRS match. Standings in some of the Canadian matches aren't much of a barometer for accuracy.

Jon Pynch absolutely murdered the shooting field at the last Canadian PRS match, it wasn't even close. So I don't think you can reasonably use that as evidence that IBI makes a great barrel.

Shoot a US PRS match with your gas gun and IBI barrel and let's see where you rank. No offense, but it's much more established in the south and a completely different ball game. I've shot both, so I speak from experience. Still not a barometer to accuracy, as I've mentioned above, but it will most certainly open your eyes and lower your expectations.
 
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kthomas said:
Also, I'm not sure what US PRS matches were won with an IBI barrel, I'm not aware of a single one - I guarantee a lot more were won with Proof barrels (lots of matches have been won with Proof barrels). PRS matches aren't the pinnacle of absolute precision (I say this as a PRS shooter). You only need a barrel capable of ~1 MOA to win matches, most targets are over 2 MOA. In fact, Jon Pynch and Jake Vibbert in one of their recent podcasts (VP Precision podcast) that that's all you need for precision out of your rifle to win a PRS match, and both have done it numerous times with rifles barely capable of 1 MOA.

If you want absolute precision, look to the benchrest crowds. Plenty of records set with Krieger, Bartlein, Rock Creek, Brux, etc - don't think a single benchrest record has been set with an IBI.
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Lol................Buck Holly and Kevin Dittoe are running ibi barrels and have recently won a few of your exalted U.S. PRS matches. There were also some strong finishes at this years Snipershide Cup with with ibi barrels......... ;)
There are a few U.S. custom rifle shops using ibi barrels with great results.

Yourself and a few others seem to like to trash talk ibi in public when the chance arises.......... Have you personally shot an ibi barrel??
 
We met at the range today and shot the rifle again with our loads. Unfortunately it does appear to be a bad barrel and we will be standing by it. The loads are certainly NOT repeatable. Even the top tier barrel makers release a bad one hear and there. And regardless KThomas, brands don’t make guns. Smiths make the rifles. We have warrantied Krieger and now Proof. And we do agree, IBI have some issues and we have been hesitant to use them. We see lots that shoot, however the one we did was garbage and the company didn’t stand by it. That’s the biggest issue, manufacturers that stand by their product. If IBI won’t stand by their product then there will always be reputable smiths that won’t use the product. Looking forward to see how Poof is to deal with as we still have quite a few of their barrels kicking around. We have seen great results from them to date.
 
stevesummit said:
We met at the range today and shot the rifle again with our loads. Unfortunately it does appear to be a bad barrel and we will be standing by it. The loads are certainly NOT repeatable. Even the top tier barrel makers release a bad one hear and there. And regardless KThomas, brands don’t make guns. Smiths make the rifles. We have warrantied Krieger and now Proof. And we do agree, IBI have some issues and we have been hesitant to use them. We see lots that shoot, however the one we did was garbage and the company didn’t stand by it. That’s the biggest issue, manufacturers that stand by their product. If IBI won’t stand by their product then there will always be reputable smiths that won’t use the product. Looking forward to see how Poof is to deal with as we still have quite a few of their barrels kicking around. We have seen great results from them to date.
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That's been my point all along, which is why I pointed out how silly of a post the original one I quoted was. That quoted post does the OP and the board no good.

I hope Proof takes good care of you guys, I would be surprised if they didn't. Good luck.
 
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Skullboy said:
Lol................Buck Holly and Kevin Dittoe are running ibi barrels and have recently won a few of your exalted U.S. PRS matches. There were also some strong finishes at this years Snipershide Cup with with ibi barrels......... ;)
There are a few U.S. custom rifle shops using ibi barrels with great results.

Yourself and a few others seem to like to trash talk ibi in public when the chance arises.......... Have you personally shot an ibi barrel??
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I didn't jump in here to talk trash about IBI, I jumped in here because your post was ridiculous and didn't help the OP at all. If you didn't create your post saying the OP should jump from his barrel brand of Proof to IBI, which Proof has a lot better track record and reputation, than I wouldn't be in this thread. Those types of posts don't do anyone any good, from the OP to anyone else on here.

Like I said in my other posts, PRS matches are not the Hallmark of precision, plenty have been won by great shooters using worn out barrels that could barely hold 1 MOA. Some top PRS shooters have said as much.

Hope Proof does the OP right, I will be surprised if they don't. That's all that really matters at this point.
 
kthomas said:
A sanctioned PRS match or a "PRS" match? Sorry, but the shoots in Canada, some of which I've attended, are not the same quality as those in other places - which is to be expected of a match in a very grass roots region.
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I'm going to assume that you are unaware that Canadians have placed top 3 and even won PRS matches in the US...

Refer to my other post where you don't need much more than a 1 MOA capable system to win a PRS match. Standings in some of the Canadian matches aren't much of a barometer for accuracy.

Jon Pynch absolutely murdered the shooting field at the last Canadian PRS match, it wasn't even close. So I don't think you can reasonably use that as evidence that IBI makes a great barrel.
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I would hazard a guess that the majority of the competitive shooters in Canada are using US-made barrels. So I don't think you can reasonably use that as evidence that US manufacturers make a great barrel. It's almost as if the skill of the shooters has something to do with it. As you have said, the PRS scene up here is tiny compared to in the US. A fraction of the shooters, a fraction of the number of long distance ranges, a fraction of the firearms industry etc etc. The fact that US shooters are better has nothing to do with what barrels they are using, but instead a simple statistical inevitability.

Shoot a US PRS match with your gas gun and IBI barrel and let's see where you rank. No offense, but it's much more established in the south and a completely different ball game. I've shot both, so I speak from experience. Still not a barometer to accuracy, as I've mentioned above, but it will most certainly open your eyes and lower your expectations.
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Maybe give that gas gun to Jon Pynch and see what happens....
 
stevesummit said:
We met at the range today and shot the rifle again with our loads. Unfortunately it does appear to be a bad barrel and we will be standing by it. The loads are certainly NOT repeatable. Even the top tier barrel makers release a bad one hear and there. And regardless KThomas, brands don’t make guns. Smiths make the rifles. We have warrantied Krieger and now Proof. And we do agree, IBI have some issues and we have been hesitant to use them. We see lots that shoot, however the one we did was garbage and the company didn’t stand by it. That’s the biggest issue, manufacturers that stand by their product. If IBI won’t stand by their product then there will always be reputable smiths that won’t use the product. Looking forward to see how Poof is to deal with as we still have quite a few of their barrels kicking around. We have seen great results from them to date.
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So you have built guns with krieger proof and IBI that shot like shat. Maybe it’s the builder as smiths make the rifle? And I might ask are you a dealer?
 
Jamie said:
So you have built guns with krieger proof and IBI that shot like shat. Maybe it’s the builder as smiths make the rifle? And I might ask are you a dealer?
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Yes, in over 400 rifles to date there have been three barrels we have had to warranty including this one. And unfortunately one was an IBI and was the first and only IBI.

Looking at that, using several top tier barre brands we have seen less than 0.75% failure rate in barrels.
 
Alpheus said:
I'm going to assume that you are unaware that Canadians have placed top 3 and even won PRS matches in the US...



I would hazard a guess that the majority of the competitive shooters in Canada are using US-made barrels. So I don't think you can reasonably use that as evidence that US manufacturers make a great barrel. It's almost as if the skill of the shooters has something to do with it. As you have said, the PRS scene up here is tiny compared to in the US. A fraction of the shooters, a fraction of the number of long distance ranges, a fraction of the firearms industry etc etc. The fact that US shooters are better has nothing to do with what barrels they are using, but instead a simple statistical inevitability.



Maybe give that gas gun to Jon Pynch and see what happens....
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I think you are completely missing my point, but that's okay as this conversation has run it's course.

And PS - I have nothing against Canadian shooters. I am one after all...
 
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My IBI barrel(s) shoots as well as my Proof Research, Benchmark, and Pacnor.

How does a rifle that shoots .3moa 3 shot groups be defective? There was nothing wrong with that barrel, just the ammo which wasn't tuned correctly
 
todbartell said:
My IBI barrel(s) shoots as well as my Proof Research, Benchmark, and Pacnor.

How does a rifle that shoots .3moa 3 shot groups be defective? There was nothing wrong with that barrel, just the ammo which wasn't tuned correctly
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That’s a good question. I have been able to produce a few 3-4 shot .5 MOA groups. Using the same shells, I will get nasty fliers. It isn’t possible to tune the fliers out. Extensive load development has been done and the fliers aren’t going away.

It’s a good case for why 3 shot groups don’t mean anything.
 
coleman1495 said:
That’s a good question. I have been able to produce a few 3-4 shot .5 MOA groups. Using the same shells, I will get nasty fliers. It isn’t possible to tune the fliers out. Extensive load development has been done and the fliers aren’t going away.

It’s a good case for why 3 shot groups don’t mean anything.
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Whats the barrel time of the loads you've been using? Close to 1.127 millseconds?
 
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