Trudeau's Gun Ban and Buy Back

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I felt some hatred towards immigrants here so I created an account just to post this.
Let me start with saying All Canadians except for Indigenous people are immigrants.
Secondly, I'm an immigrant, RPAL holder and a gun owner and 100% against any gun ban because it doesn't add to the security of Canadians.
In regards to the elections: Yes, most immigrants voted liberals, and righteously did so. Due to some of Harper's ideologies, most of these people are currently afraid what measures can be done by the conservatives against them and their presence/privileges.
Also, I noticed severe lack of awareness of gun laws in both the new immigrant population and the general population allowing Trudeau to lie to the people publicly about these laws. Hopefully, the CCFR can address some of these issues.

Also an immigrant but never felt threatened by Harper. What are they afraid of?

As for raising awareness of gun laws, I hate to be a pessimist but I feel it's kind of a lost cause. I've engaged some people. You explain the laws to them, and they are like "I see. but guns are still bad". You explain we are not dangerous and it's "but you don't need those guns". I see others compose a well thought out response and they reply "I don't care enough to read all that so get a new hobby" :bangHead: I kind of regret getting into this hobby because it's turning me into a real cynic.
 
This sounds like it's from the movie Tropic Thunder or something. Lol.

Yes it did. Bahahahahahah! Good call on that one. My uses for my firearms? Hunting and target shooting. Plain and simple. Nothing stranger. There's enough strange in here already. LOL
 
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Also an immigrant but never felt threatened by Harper. What are they afraid of?

As for raising awareness of gun laws, I hate to be a pessimist but I feel it's kind of a lost cause. I've engaged some people. You explain the laws to them, and they are like "I see. but guns are still bad". You explain we are not dangerous and it's "but you don't need those guns". I see others compose a well thought out response and they reply "I don't care enough to read all that so get a new hobby" :bangHead: I kind of regret getting into this hobby because it's turning me into a real cynic.

Say this: "Private firearms ownership keeps you safe...keeps everybody safe. Right now criminals mostly attack each other. Once guns are banned criminals will home invade anybody they choose and we'll all be victims."

Avoid mentioning the biggest issue with civilian disarmament, because it is impossible for humans (except those who read history) to believe: If politicians want to disarm the innocent, it's for one reason only: The greatest cause of death in the 20th century was murder by one's own government.
 
There is no such thing as a god (note the lower case). The concept of a god is imaginary so nothing more to say about that. So where does that leave your statement? Relying on unproven concept of a god to try and prove a point just weakens the argument.

The right to bear arms is part of tradition and British common law, that is it. Not this god given crap. It can be taken away so it has to be fought for. It is not enshrined in any constitution or charter. Trudeau the elder made sure of that.

The New Zealanders just bent over and took it like wimps. I hope Canadians will disobey any confiscation or buyback from the government. Let the police come to our residences with a warrant for seizure and then let them push by you to search your house, break into your gun locker to take your guns. Do not bring them in the the police station like NEW ZEALAND WIMPS. The photos I saw on the internet of these humbled, defeated gun owners giving their weapons in was disgusting. I will never think of New Zealanders the same way. Bunch of Pussies. No wonder they never defeated the Maoris.

Just like the Australian Pussies that act so tough but let the government take their guns years ago. Should be ashamed of themselves.

So what we have to do as Canadians is make is as hard, time consuming and expensive as possible for the government to take our guns until we get a gun friendly regime.
 
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I fear that is true, we will just bend over and take it. Canada, Australia and New Zealand never had to fight for their freedom from an Empire, it was simply given at no cost. The Americans had to fight for it.

That is my rant for the day.
 
"Guns" are not a hobby.
Bearing arms for defense against fellow man and tyrannical governments is a God given right, which is not currently formally acknowledged by "our" government.

There is no such thing as a god (note the lower case). The concept of a god is imaginary so nothing more to say about that. So where does that leave your statement? Relying on unproven concept of a god to try and prove a point just weakens the argument.

God, in this context, is a philosopher's shorthand for natural law.

If a dog corners a cat, the cat will defend itself.
If you corner a skunk, the skunk will defend itself.
If you take a bear's cubs, the bear will defend its cubs.
If you are being beaten, your arms will come up to defend yourself by autonomic reflex. You have no control over this, it just happens. You may not be victorious, but you will fight or flight.

These are natural laws, from which your "Right To Life" arises, which is in our Charter.
One can deny a person has a "Right To Life" (and several countries have, and then there's genocide) but you may as well deny that Gravity exists. It simply is.

From that comes "Right To Self Defence" which is ingrained in Canada's Criminal Code and Common Law, which is not in Charter but is nonetheless a thing.

From those comes the "Right To Bear Arms", again not in Canada's Charter.
Sir William Blackstone wrote in the 18th century that the right to have arms was auxiliary to the "natural right of resistance and self-preservation". Blackstone's "Commentaries on the Laws of England" have been required reading for lawyers (and thus most Parliamentarians) for a couple centuries.

Neanderthals picked up sticks as clubs, sharpened rocks became swords, then gunpowder then whatever. Statistically a firearm is the only tool for self defence that reduces your harm in a violent encounter, and thus the firearm is the only tool that supports your Right To Self Defence. Militaries across the world know this.
In R. v. Kerr SCC commented that a person is not expected to fight off an assault with only tooth and nail.

The USA put theirs into their Constitution. They did that because England (and thus Canadians) had the 'constitutional' Right To Bear Arms so they were adopting that. They did it because the War Of Independence (1776) started when the British tried to seize guns and powder. They did it because they'd successfully fought back using a militia that brought their own personal guns, and without keeping the militia armed they were vulnerable. They did it because Locke was a strong influence on the Founding Fathers. Their Constitution gives their supreme court unlimited power to overrule legislatures in case of conflict.

England had a Right To Bear Arms, long before the The Bill of Rights 1689. Indeed it was the King's attempt to pass Acts that restricted that right that bore the birth of the codifying of that right in The Bill of Rights 1689. Unlike Canada and the USA, England doesn't actually have a Constitution. They have a handful of Bills that are traditionally viewed as 'constitutional'. But they have a 'supremacy of parliament' which is unlimited power, and so they can revoke any Bill at any time. Since they don't have a constitution, their supreme court is completely subservient to the supremacy of parliament. This has lots of side effects, with parliament and the Home Office infringing not only on the Right To Bear Arms, but also the Right To Free Speech, and other Rights. Essentially English citizens have no Rights, except those privileges which parliament hasn't taken from them.

Canada is a mix between the two. We have a Charter which gives power to our supreme court, but we have the notwithstanding clause so that the supremacy of parliaments can dismiss the Charter. In the case of the Right To Bear Arms, as a side effect of English tradition, The Bill Of Rights 1689, the English Right To Bear Arms, the Right To Bear Arms in Canada has been expressed in Parliament several times throughout Canada's history as a reason not to enact, or not to go too far, with gun control. The first time this was completely thrown to the wind was 1995's C68 Firearms Act, which enabled licencing, which in turn effectively made it a privilege although that was uncertain at the time if that would hold.

C68 was challenged, eventually making it to our supreme court in Firearms Act Reference 2000. When it was argued in the lower courts (superior court, appellant court), that lawyer knew the Right To Bear Arms history and was prepared to argue it. But at the supreme court, he was replaced by an older lawyer who had argued before the supreme court before, and that lawyer did not know the Right To Bear Arms arguments and never raised them although questions asked by supreme court justices could have had those answers. Indeed, even today, there are arguments of multiple constitutional rights violations of the Firearms Act that were not argued in 2000, and there are Right To Bear Arms arguments that have been to court and not properly argued (Montague's attempt was not optimal. Dr. Edward B. Hudson's was pretty good, but was after R. v. Wiles 2005 so it was crushed)

Although several court cases have correctly stated that the Right To Bear Arms is not in the Charter,
in R. v. Wiles 2005, the supreme court for apparently no good reason, just threw it out there that firearms ownership is a privilege.


The right to bear arms is part of tradition and British common law, that is it. It can be taken away so it has to be fought for. It is not enshrined in any [Canadian] constitution or charter. Trudeau the elder made sure of that.

Yep.

The Right To Bear Arms is a Quashed Right.
 
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copied from elsewhere, circa 2009

A Brief History of British Gun Control

In 1900 the British government trusted the people with firearms and to be their own guardians. Prime Minister Robert Gascoyne-Cecil, the Marquess of Salisbury said he would "laud the day when there was a rifle in every cottage in England". However in 1903 Britain passed its first ever "gun control" law, a minor one requiring a permit to carry a handgun and restricting the age of purchasers. It was the first toe over a slippery slope towards complete firearms prohibition.

In 1919 the British government, in fear of communist insurgents and domestic and foreign anarchists, passed its first sweeping anti-gun laws (under the smokescreen of crime control) even though gun related crime was almost non existent in the England of the day. British subjects could now only buy a firearm if they could show "a good reason" for having one and the firearm certificate system that we have today (implemented and abused by police) was introduced. The 1920 gun control act was the beginning of the end for private firearms ownership in England. So much for Robert Gascoyne-Cecil's remarks of "a rifle in every cottage in England" being a laudable goal.

In 1936 short barrelled shotguns (such as shot pistols used for ratting) and fully automatic firearms were outlawed. Why? Not because such firearms were ever misused but because the government dictated that civilians had "no legitimate reason" for owning them. Where have we heard that before! Another slide down the slippery slope. The reasoning has now changed from the government NEEDING TO SHOW REASONS FOR THE RESTRICTIONS to the people NEEDING TO SHOW REASONS TO EXERCISE THEIR RIGHTS, to a government TELLING them that there was NO ACCEPTABLE REASON.

The English Bill of Rights states "That the subjects which are Protestants may have arms for their defence, suitable to their condition and as allowed by law" Sir William Blackstone, commenting on this in his Commentaries on the laws of England said, "The fifth and last auxiliary RIGHT of the subject, that I shall at present mention, is that of having arms for their defence, suitable to their condition, and as allowed by law, which is also declared by the same statute IW & M ft.2c.2 and is indeed a public allowance, under due restrictions, of the natural right of resistance and self preservation, when the sanctions of society and laws are found insufficient to restrain the violence of oppression". I wonder what happened to "the natural RIGHT of resistance and self preservation" (from domestic criminals and out of control governments). Have not the "sanctions of society and laws" been shown "insufficient to restrain the violence of oppression"?

In 1936 the government added a "safe storage" requirement on the owners of handguns and rifles to "prevent the guns falling into the wrong hands" Where have we heard that one before, and how often do the British police use that particular requirement to harass what is left of the British gun owning community?

As a direct consequence of the 1920 gun control act, not only did Britain not have "a rifle in every cottage" but they had to ask American citizens to send them every type of rifle and handgun at the outbreak of WWII, so British people would have some means of defending their homes and islands against the Nazi hordes massing across the English Channel. Americans responded by sending every type of firearm to the unarmed and helpless people of Britain. No surprise, but at the end of the war the British people did not get to keep the guns, the government seized many of them back and dumped them in the sea. Such was the British government's gratitude to the American public and distrust of their own people.

In 1946 "self defence" was no longer considered a good reason for requiring a police issued firearms certificate. The slippery slope got even steeper.

In 1953 carrying any type of weapon for self defence was made illegal, making the streets even safer for the criminal element and giving great "crime control" soundbites to the police and press.

In 1967 a chap by the name of Harry Roberts blasted three policemen to death in a London street using a 9mm Luger pistol and the British government restricted shotguns for the very first time. Try to figure out the logic... handgun used... shotguns licensed for the first time in British history.

In 1982 black powder muzzle loader shooters and handloaders were required to allow police inspection of their security arrangements to ensure "safe storage" of the powder they possessed, meaning that agents of the state could demand entry into an Englishman's home at any time of day or night without a warrant.

In 1988 all semi-automatic rifles were banned, including pump action rifles. The personal property of law abiding people was once again outlawed and seized. All the guns were registered and easy to find, that is to say, all the legally held ones.

In 1996 all handguns were banned and they too were all registered with the agents of the state. Well, need I say more? You get the picture. Also in 1996 carrying any knife with a blade longer than 3 inches was made illegal. Presumably one cannot stab someone to death with a three inch knife. You now had to show "good reason" for carrying a knife, the presumption of innocence, until proven guilty of a crime, was gone.

In England today you cannot carry any type of weapon for self defence and you cannot use a firearm to defend your home, family, or property. The gun and weapon laws have made crime safe for criminals and the other violent thugs and miscreants who infest our country today.

In 2006 the government passed the Violent Crime Reduction Act. The VCRA restricted all "realistic" toy/replica guns. Now Britons were not to be trusted with even imitation non-firing replicas. "Violent crime reduction" was once again used as the smokescreen to enact oppressive laws and deprive the law abiding of their property. As part of the VCRA an airgun can no longer be purchased by mail order and the name and address of the purchaser must be registered with the seller.

In 2009 talks with the British government were started to devolve airgun laws to the Scottish parliament.
 
I felt some hatred towards immigrants here so I created an account just to post this.
Let me start with saying All Canadians except for Indigenous people are immigrants.
Secondly, I'm an immigrant, RPAL holder and a gun owner and 100% against any gun ban because it doesn't add to the security of Canadians.
In regards to the elections: Yes, most immigrants voted liberals, and righteously did so. Due to some of Harper's ideologies, most of these people are currently afraid what measures can be done by the conservatives against them and their presence/privileges.
Also, I noticed severe lack of awareness of gun laws in both the new immigrant population and the general population allowing Trudeau to lie to the people publicly about these laws. Hopefully, the CCFR can address some of these issues.

you know full well we're not talking about the same immigration as 60 years ago,we're talking about a group pretty much all from the same place,that just show up here and get everything handed to them,they get a lot more benefits than ACTUAL canadians,who have to work and fight for anything they want,pay for medication,dentist,eye care etc,why should these supposedly immigrants have so much more than those canadians struggling here,if the libtards want to givethese refugees everything they should at least give the same consideration to actual canadians as well..Canada sent men away to die in many wars to keep our country safe,while these thousands of fighting age supposedly refugee men are RUNNING AWAY from a war for freedom in THEIR country,come here,get everything handed to them for free,and watch as OUR men and women have to go to THEIR country to fight,because they are too spineless to stay and fight,
 
What bothers me is all of the people screaming they'll shoot folks, etc. I've been seeing more of it than I care to.

People fail to realize that this could actually topple the liberal gov't played right.

Only one thing matters to politics, really, no matter the stripe and color: Cost.

When and if a buyback is announced, fight to drive up prices as far as possible.

Make it as non-palatable as possible to the people trying to get concessions from the liberals.

"Wait, your 250 million gun buyback would cost... 1 billion? WHAT BOUT THE ENVIRONMENT!"

Then polite non-compliance.

"Oh, I forgot to surrender it, just send the kind folks to come and get it."

Drive up the costs even more to get them. As the dollar figures go up, especially in a minority government, political will goes down.

it's threefold really.... but's all key on one thing:

1 - Keeping the 'hearts and minds' of Canadian Citizens.

All this blurr bla bla I'm a shoot LEO when they come for my AR-15 blee bloo blop does us *NO* favors.

We keep the hearts and minds of the rest of Canada and part of that is looking like what we are -- the most law abiding group of people in the country.

2 - Call the Libs on their #### with 'underestimated' costs of a buyback or confiscation program. Keep driving the costs up.

3 - Peaceful noncompliance if it comes to that to keep driving costs up *MORE*

None of this can happen without 1, and folks seem so quick to beak off and threaten and it does us not one favor.

We can win this pretty handily by beating them at their own game and possibly taking their gov't with it.

As soon as the average joe can pass us off as a 'eh, bunch of crazy loons' it's over.

Remember that.
This get the point!!!
+2
 
Just wait till it's canada's turn, the majority of people here are spineless so bending over to take it will be that much more easy for them.

That has been the case in the past but the guys who own the guns that will be targeted are not Fudds. The guys who own those semi-autos have a lot invested and I do not believe that the government will pay a decent amount in a buyback. It will be very interesting to see if it ever comes to that.
 
Go buy something restricted this week. Even something cheap like a stripped lower or a Chinese TT33.

Swell the numbers of restricted registrations. Let the Canadian public know exactly how expensive this plan is going to be. Make it as expensive as possible. I already bought a Tokarev I don't even want. Everybody here should do the same.
 
Just wait till it's canada's turn, the majority of people here are spineless so bending over to take it will be that much more easy for them.

So you will get a criminal record and lose your pistols as well? How’s life look for you with a criminal record? Employable? Travel? Can’t own a single shot 22?
 
Let me start with saying All Canadians except for Indigenous people are immigrants.

Incorrect.

im·mi·grant
noun: immigrant; plural noun: immigrants. A person who comes to live permanently in a foreign country.

If you were born in Canada, you are NOT an immigrant. An immigrant originates (by individuals birth location) from another country.
 
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