So where are we now?

[CosmiC10R]

Right, you want to come off as a wing nut fire arms owner. Good luck...
We need level headed with a rational message.

It's interesting seeing the same label smear the media uses also used internally within the firearms community...
The idea no one with a level head or rational message is trying or hasn't tried is laughable...

In any case... I also wish you good luck in your bid to have the crocodile eat you last....

 

[PSYLNZ]

While it is important to continuously argue for our gun rights, that's a long term fight. A more reachable goal in the short term would be to point to the uselessness of the gun bans, and how completely ineffective they would be at reducing crime. The 905 voting block, the people of Toronto and other large Metropolitan areas in the country, with few shooters or people who know anything about guns aren't going to be swayed to act or vote differently in the near future to support our right to shoot paper targets. BUT they would be concerned about effective measures to keep their neighborhoods safe, and pissed off about measures that do not keep them safe. If we could get through to people in the 905 that Trudeau is letting them down, if we can get them to realize that Trudeau and the Liberals are using the tragedies in these neighborhoods to push their anti-gun agenda, and take their votes, while not giving a damn about these communities, We can make headway, regardless of how these people feel about guns.

Basically, in the short term, we stand to gain more by proving the Trudeau Liberals policies will fail than we do arguing for our rights.

 

[Diamondback Six]

The other thing is to look for opportunities to discredit the other team's players at every opportunity... for example, the so-called "Ukraine whistleblower" down here is represented by a lawyer who has openly bragged about getting kiddie-####ers into US Federal Gov employment.

Alinsky the living crap out of them, individually and personally, until evil old Saul rises from the grave wailing about "What have I done?!"

 

[mcwalther]

While it is important to continuously argue for our gun rights, that's a long term fight. A more reachable goal in the short term would be to point to the uselessness of the gun bans, and how completely ineffective they would be at reducing crime. The 905 voting block, the people of Toronto and other large Metropolitan areas in the country, with few shooters or people who know anything about guns aren't going to be swayed to act or vote differently in the near future to support our right to shoot paper targets. BUT they would be concerned about effective measures to keep their neighborhoods safe, and pissed off about measures that do not keep them safe. If we could get through to people in the 905 that Trudeau is letting them down, if we can get them to realize that Trudeau and the Liberals are using the tragedies in these neighborhoods to push their anti-gun agenda, and take their votes, while not giving a damn about these communities, We can make headway, regardless of how these people feel about guns.

Basically, in the short term, we stand to gain more by proving the Trudeau Liberals policies will fail than we do arguing for our rights.

This.

 

[skatemike77]

I read through most of this thread with much disappointment. Everyone trying to figure out why are guns are being taken from us and how to best guard ourselves against the onslaught of liberal and socialist propaganda to no avail.

What don't you people understand? Everyone keeps mentioning how the the Libs dominated the 416 and 905 and managed to win again but no one mentions why they won. Why did Lisa Raitt lose her seat in Milton? Are you fools going to wake up yet to the reality of demographic replacement or what?

It is not just our guns we are going to lose, but much much more. It is time to face the writing on the walls and acknowledge that our gun "rights" are toast. We must prepare for the next phase of this socialist utopia that is coming our way and fast.

Continue to ignore the threat of immigration and demographic change and the loss of your precious ar15 will be the last thing you are worried about.

 

[scout_289]

I read through most of this thread with much disappointment. Everyone trying to figure out why are guns are being taken from us and how to best guard ourselves against the onslaught of liberal and socialist propaganda to no avail.

What don't you people understand? Everyone keeps mentioning how the the Libs dominated the 416 and 905 and managed to win again but no one mentions why they won. Why did Lisa Raitt lose her seat in Milton? Are you fools going to wake up yet to the reality of demographic replacement or what?

It is not just our guns we are going to lose, but much much more. It is time to face the writing on the walls and acknowledge that our gun "rights" are toast. We must prepare for the next phase of this socialist utopia that is coming our way and fast.

Continue to ignore the threat of immigration and demographic change and the loss of your precious ar15 will be the last thing you are worried about.

I've been hawking this for years SK: https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/11-630-x/11-630-x2015004-eng.htm

It's as plain a signal as can be imagined but this thread and the core of the gun community that it represents much prefers to howl at the moon. I've concluded that it's a form of entertainment rather than any serious attempt to find real solutions.

Right now every thread on this forum carries the same theme: Liberals are bad, what are they going to do to us, how can we make mischief to show our displeasure? And these are supposed to be the vanguard of our free thinking self reliant and survivalist mindset. And we're doing exactly the same stuff that we did for the last 50 years - walking backwards into the future with our minds fixed firmly on the past.

And then there's our orgs (with the exception of the CSAAA) who are not interested in longer term solutions, they whip the troops into a froth using their pet agendas / methods and the donations spike every time there's a threat to our freedom. Who wants to fix that "problem"?

So no new ideas, no coordinated lobby, "friendly" politicians becoming more distant with every election call ................... straight line to oblivion.

And yes, our future as a country is going to change dramatically in the next decade and guns (all guns) will be the least of our problems. Guns are highly symbolic of that slippage and if this paralysed impotence is any sign of our best effort the fix is already in.

 

[scout_289]

While it is important to continuously argue for our gun rights, that's a long term fight. A more reachable goal in the short term would be to point to the uselessness of the gun bans, and how completely ineffective they would be at reducing crime. The 905 voting block, the people of Toronto and other large Metropolitan areas in the country, with few shooters or people who know anything about guns aren't going to be swayed to act or vote differently in the near future to support our right to shoot paper targets. BUT they would be concerned about effective measures to keep their neighborhoods safe, and pissed off about measures that do not keep them safe. If we could get through to people in the 905 that Trudeau is letting them down, if we can get them to realize that Trudeau and the Liberals are using the tragedies in these neighborhoods to push their anti-gun agenda, and take their votes, while not giving a damn about these communities, We can make headway, regardless of how these people feel about guns.

Basically, in the short term, we stand to gain more by proving the Trudeau Liberals policies will fail than we do arguing for our rights.

In the USA the NSSF has departed sharply from the NRA's confrontative / legal approach and joined forces with large and highly respected groups that are starting to come to grips with the root causes of gun abuse. It's a long, slow reversal of fortunes but in the three years that it's been in play it's showing real results starting with a very effective sidelining of the most vocal anti gun voices.

Link in my sig line and lots of reading from there on.

Here in Canada the idea of fine tuning our existing toolbox and changing our core image with some new themes is a dud so for what happens from here on we're just along for the ride.

History will point the way to our failure with shoulda / coulda / woulda but by then it'll be too late. The gun community thinks that they are great leaders but in fact they are more expert at following events rather than setting the agenda.

 

[CosmiC10R]

In the USA the NSSF has departed sharply from the NRA's confrontative / legal approach and joined forces with large and highly respected groups that are starting to come to grips with the root causes of gun abuse. It's a long, slow reversal of fortunes but in the three years that it's been in play it's showing real results starting with a very effective sidelining of the most vocal anti gun voices.

Link in my sig line and lots of reading from there on.

Here in Canada the idea of fine tuning our existing toolbox and changing our core image with some new themes is a dud so for what happens from here on we're just along for the ride.

History will point the way to our failure with shoulda / coulda / woulda but by then it'll be too late. The gun community thinks that they are great leaders but in fact they are more expert at following events rather than setting the agenda.

As we have discussed a few times you are comparing apples to oranges..

We play a behind game because we don't have a universal right as written in 2A that unifies the gun community behind one central tenet under attack...
In the states they take a different approach to defend the same Amendment and in Canada we take a different approach hoping some poop will stick to a wall that is greased with the weakness of the charter...

It is what it is but the weakness is in our charter and the rearguard approach it forces us to take due to the fact that right is basically infringed upon systemically in Canada...

 

[TheReal_Vader]

I read through most of this thread with much disappointment. Everyone trying to figure out why are guns are being taken from us and how to best guard ourselves against the onslaught of liberal and socialist propaganda to no avail.

What don't you people understand? Everyone keeps mentioning how the the Libs dominated the 416 and 905 and managed to win again but no one mentions why they won. Why did Lisa Raitt lose her seat in Milton? Are you fools going to wake up yet to the reality of demographic replacement or what?

It is not just our guns we are going to lose, but much much more. It is time to face the writing on the walls and acknowledge that our gun "rights" are toast. We must prepare for the next phase of this socialist utopia that is coming our way and fast.

Continue to ignore the threat of immigration and demographic change and the loss of your precious ar15 will be the last thing you are worried about.

Big Facts.

Losing our guns is one small side effect of a much larger problem. Unless we’re willing to address mass immigration and the effects of ethnic replacement we don’t stand a chance. The current stock of immigrants could care less about your rights, freedoms, culture, values, traditions or history. They’re here for the free stuff and will ALWAYS vote for bigger government, higher taxes, and less freedom.

If this offends you, you’re part of the problem.

 

[GuiltySpark]

I've bought two assault weapons and a scope since Trudeau announced the gun ban- I'm doing my part

 

[scout_289]

As we have discussed a few times you are comparing apples to oranges..

We play a behind game because we don't have a universal right as written in 2A that unifies the gun community behind one central tenet under attack...
In the states they take a different approach to defend the same Amendment and in Canada we take a different approach hoping some poop will stick to a wall that is greased with the weakness of the charter...

It is what it is but the weakness is in our charter and the rearguard approach it forces us to take due to the fact that right is basically infringed upon systemically in Canada...

What you say is true and I am acutely aware of our weak position Cosmic so I have done my best to advance ideas for solutions to work around that. It's an application of "if you can't lick'em, join 'em".

Not join'em by becoming a SJW / socialist to our core but by taking a page from their playbook and embarassing the anti gun movement (and more important their government proponents) by making a real and sincere effort to deal with the hard issues that nobody wants to talk about. If successful we would then position ourselves at the front of the pack which would give us the currency that we need to be heard and taken seriously.

If things are going so swimmingly in the USA then why did a significant gun lobby (based in Newtown CT if you want bad optics) successfully mate with the largest suicide prevention NGO in the country and were just this year joined by Veterans Affairs - a branch of the US government????

And the original union was announced with great fanfare at SHOT three years ago, all of our orgs were at the show and not one brought back word of the newly formed partnership back to Canada? Hey, we love conspiracy theories and I have mine about that little "oversight".

Anyways, you're in my books as a respected contributor so I'm trying to respond to your post. Believe me, after 55+ years of this BS I've come to the conclusion that apples and oranges aside we're our own worst enemy.

 

[scout_289]

It's instructive that so many posters are in love with the Moro Labe (sic) avatar and embrace the theme of cold dead hands that it symbolizes while forgetting the lessons of the Trojan Horse.

In the former example there was great courage but the warriors were out flanked and nearly obliterated.

In the case of the Trojan Horse by guile and stealth the warriors scored a great upset.

I know which army I'd rather fight in ................

 

[boss351cleveland]

i read through most of this thread with much disappointment. Everyone trying to figure out why are guns are being taken from us and how to best guard ourselves against the onslaught of liberal and socialist propaganda to no avail.

What don't you people understand? Everyone keeps mentioning how the the libs dominated the 416 and 905 and managed to win again but no one mentions why they won. Why did lisa raitt lose her seat in milton? Are you fools going to wake up yet to the reality of demographic replacement or what?

It is not just our guns we are going to lose, but much much more. It is time to face the writing on the walls and acknowledge that our gun "rights" are toast. We must prepare for the next phase of this socialist utopia that is coming our way and fast.

Continue to ignore the threat of immigration and demographic change and the loss of your precious ar15 will be the last thing you are worried about.

this^^^

 

[scout_289]

To take the analopgy a bit further like Schwarscoff said: "Anybody can die for their country but the trick is to make the other guy die for his".

Unfortunately it seems we have no shortage of martyrs in waiting on these threads.

 

[captainamazing]

I read through most of this thread with much disappointment. Everyone trying to figure out why are guns are being taken from us and how to best guard ourselves against the onslaught of liberal and socialist propaganda to no avail.

What don't you people understand? Everyone keeps mentioning how the the Libs dominated the 416 and 905 and managed to win again but no one mentions why they won. Why did Lisa Raitt lose her seat in Milton? Are you fools going to wake up yet to the reality of demographic replacement or what?

It is not just our guns we are going to lose, but much much more. It is time to face the writing on the walls and acknowledge that our gun "rights" are toast. We must prepare for the next phase of this socialist utopia that is coming our way and fast.

Continue to ignore the threat of immigration and demographic change and the loss of your precious ar15 will be the last thing you are worried about.

You said what cannot be said. Don Cherry said something to that effect a few days ago and has been branded a racist bigot by the media. We simply do not share the majority of the beliefs or values that immigration brings to our shores; and for that we are branded with the same tired lables that liberals put on those who oppose thier plans.

 

[scout_289]

You said what cannot be said. Don Cherry said something to that effect a few days ago and has been branded a racist bigot by the media. We simply do not share the majority of the beliefs or values that immigration brings to our shores; and for that we are branded with the same tired lables that liberals put on those who oppose thier plans.

That's unfortunate isn't it? I'd like to hear some reasons why immigrants, and others, don't make an effort to pay respect to those who fought for the land that we walk on?

If you can't respect them in that slice of time, what can you respect?

 

[CosmiC10R]

What you say is true and I am acutely aware of our weak position Cosmic so I have done my best to advance ideas for solutions to work around that. It's an application of "if you can't lick'em, join 'em".

Not join'em by becoming a SJW / socialist to our core but by taking a page from their playbook and embarassing the anti gun movement (and more important their government proponents) by making a real and sincere effort to deal with the hard issues that nobody wants to talk about. If successful we would then position ourselves at the front of the pack which would give us the currency that we need to be heard and taken seriously.

If things are going so swimmingly in the USA then why did a significant gun lobby (based in Newtown CT if you want bad optics) successfully mate with the largest suicide prevention NGO in the country and were just this year joined by Veterans Affairs - a branch of the US government????

And the original union was announced with great fanfare at SHOT three years ago, all of our orgs were at the show and not one brought back word of the newly formed partnership back to Canada? Hey, we love conspiracy theories and I have mine about that little "oversight".

Anyways, you're in my books as a respected contributor so I'm trying to respond to your post. Believe me, after 55+ years of this BS I've come to the conclusion that apples and oranges aside we're our own worst enemy.

Ohhh we are... but it's not just through our own sheer incompetence...

There are a number of facets that drive the lack of movement in Canada but I think the lack of acknowledged right contributes the most. While we would still be similarily disorganized in a lot of respects we wouldnt be playing a rearguard action...

I find it infuriating when fellow gun owners proudly announce that we have no rights in Canada as an effort to dissuade people from doing something about that very fact... and then say... good luck you crazy right wing extremist...

Its ridiculous... and counter productive but again, I think a lot of the disorganization is that we as a group are trying to establish level ground rather then defend it... therefore we all find a spot we think we can defend but its not around a cohesive point...

So to your point, I still agree that your ideas are the right thing although I don't think we will get the hoped for positive media exposure that we would otherwise gain due to the way media is these days.

Honestly, the vast majority of non gun owners that I meet are pretty realistic about where the problem lies and what would actually solve it but a lot of their perception is based on the medias fearmongering to keep the focus on the disarmament agenda. Where we have issues in both countries and in general is the medias biased taking of sides to the shrill group of people who live in urban areas and can count on police response.

Its all a little depressing when I type it all out but again... one needs to pick themselves up by the boot straps and carry on with the fight...
I do think the CCFR is making some good in roads but is still limited by the rearguard action...
I can't foresee Canada ever actually establishing real rights because they seem to be extremely frightening to the majority of Canada as well as some gun owners for whatever reason...

 

[JGPinYYC]

I think it might help if ranges would provide more access to their facilities for non-shooters t get in there and try it. They might enjoy it, and would get the chance to see that firearms enthusiasts are not a bunch of wild-eyed radicals intent on overthrowing the government and shooting people. I actually wanted to see about having our daughters 14th birthday party at a local range, and have a couple overseers there to make sure everything was safe, teach the kids bout gun safety, and let them fire some weapons. A critical part would be to extend a welcome to any parents that might have concerns, and let them try it too. let them see the emphasis on safety but also how much fun it can be to do some shooting.

There are a few reasons I haven't gotten this off the ground, yet, but I'm still sort of working away on it.

But I'd love to see some ranges making their facilities available for such an event. maybe some are; I don't know. My wife at first thought I was crazy but as I explained it and she thought about it she was coming around.

 

[Kaberday]

Ah yes C-68, broght you by mass immigration, lol.

 

[rangebob]

On September 22, 1998, then Justice Minister Anne McLellan refused to address thousands of responsible firearm owners rallying (Fed Up II) on Parliament Hill, but told the media: "The debate is settled. The debate is over.”

"... we're not interested in confiscating their guns, as long as they are legitimate gun owners, as long as they store them appropriately, transport them appropriately and so on ..."
— Anne McLellan, Minister of Justice, September 22, 1998, Ottawa (FED UP II)