ATRS is worth the money?
- Thread starter Czarface
- Start date
It was BCL. Have you seen the quality of their stuff?
Someone posted a photo of the magwell broached by another company, possibly he would be so kind as to post it again so you can see it?
Once you outsource you really gamble on the quality you get back. It CAN be as good but many times it is not. I agree ATRS is not the only company that can do high quality work but from experience I have never had any issues with their products and feel what they make is extremely high quality so am glad they opted to not outsource any of their products..
Aaah it was you who posted the photos of the magwell . Would you be so kind to repost it?
One of the reasons the ATRS is so expensive is because they get their mag wells cut by wire EDM. To my knowledge, they outsource it. Super precise (overkill) but also relatively expensive.
The lower one is milled after the corners are predrilled to provide clearance for the milling cutter. It's cheaper and can be done using any milling machine. Even a manual mill. However, theres something going on with those corners that doesn't look right.
Broaching of magwells is not the first choice unless going for high volume. It's fast, accurate, and reliable. However, the custom broaches are in the $10k range, I believe. Single point broaching is a new option capable on CNC mills, but it's slow and theres a lot of debate on how it can damage the spindle bearings.
The lower one is milled after the corners are predrilled to provide clearance for the milling cutter. It's cheaper and can be done using any milling machine. Even a manual mill. However, theres something going on with those corners that doesn't look right.
Broaching of magwells is not the first choice unless going for high volume. It's fast, accurate, and reliable. However, the custom broaches are in the $10k range, I believe. Single point broaching is a new option capable on CNC mills, but it's slow and theres a lot of debate on how it can damage the spindle bearings.
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- Location
- Red Deer, Alberta
ATRS has it's own wire EDM machine. They also use it for rough cutting the bolt on the their precision rifles, so that the bolt handle is cut from one piece of steel with the bolt.
They also have a tumbler for knocking off the rough edges.
I believe the only process they out source is the anodizing.
I have no doubt ATRS deliver quality products well worth the $1000. What I find concerning is the lead time and the low quantity getting pumped out, we're talking 12 months on the third run. Due to the MS's aesthetics and AR part interchangeability, the Liberals can reclassify this gem from NR to Restricted/Prohibited. The more MS rifles in the market, the less feasible it is for the Liberal to do so. At couple hundred MS rifles???...that'll cost less than one of Trudeau's vacations.
One option would be to license out the design (I've been through this). These products do not carry the ATRS's name, ATRS does not need to be responsible for the sales or service, ATRS just needs to give permission for "Joe" to use the design in exchange for a cut. How "Joe" manufacture or bring the receivers to Canadians would therefore be irrelevant to ATRS.
Options for "Joe" can be but not limited to the following
1. Setup shop on his/her own (does not need to be in Canada)
2. Approach shops already in the firearms industry, preferably shops that have experience/tooling with AR's (unlikely to be Canadian)
3. Approach shops not in the firearms industry
If I was ATRS, the "Roll's Royce" of MS rifles, I would have no fear competing with the "Toyota" of MS rifles. Especially if I get a cut out of it. What I would fear is not enough MS rifles in Canada. I'm sure the guys at ATRS are a fantastic group of people making great MS Receivers, I just wish there could be more to go around. The MS is a gem of a product, and I think should be the go-to Black Rifle stocked in every gun store across the nation.
I feel like I keep repeating myself, and I don't want to derail this thread any further. This would be my last post on this thread, it's all nothing by my sole opinion. Signing out
So similar to what NEA did with the 102. Just licence out the design.
alberta tactical rifle
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- calgary alberta
REAL old info. We bought our first wire EDM in 2009. They are NOT cheap they ARE finicky but they DO produce incredibly good results!
alberta tactical rifle
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- calgary alberta
"The more MS rifles in the market, the less feasible it is for the Liberal to do so. At couple hundred MS rifles???"
The AR15 will always grossly out number the number of MS set in Canada, it has a 40 year head start and multiple manufacturers but I know what you are thinking and agree. It just ins't possible to catch up with that sort of head start.
"1. Setup shop on his/her own (does not need to be in Canada)" Then it becomes subject to import which makes it easy for the feds to then revisit classification as well as CBSA to interfere with the importation.
"2. Approach shops already in the firearms industry, preferably shops that have experience/tooling with AR's (unlikely to be Canadian)"
Very unlikely as all we have to choose from is BCL, MDI or Dlask. So then we are back to answer #1
"3. Approach shops not in the firearms industry"
I answered this already, the shop would have to apply for and obtain a FBL that allows it to manufacture firearms, have a secure facility and vet their employee's, which is not a cheap trick nor a fast 1.
Canada simply does not have enough of a client base (population) to warrant a massive expansion or to create many additional firearms manufacturers. Especially now with the Turd looking to appease the useless bunch of mayors, politicians, a whining dishonest wanna be survivor, 1 true survivor who frankly shouldn't have and an ex police chief who screwed the pooch and then bailed after making Moronto a shiite hole that is overrun with gangs and criminals.
IF you want to run ATRS better than I do, no problem, just bring money.
alberta tactical rifle
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- calgary alberta
Nope we outsouce anodizing, nitriding and heat treating. All of which are artforms to a degree in themselves. ALL machine work is done in-house.
Cameron SS
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Ground Zero
Bottom line, you get what you pay for. Thats it thats all.
I don't own one myself, but I have handled and shot several ATRS guns. WIthout exception, those who own tend say that they are worth every penny.
That and the ATRS folks are some classy dudes, no reason not to give them serious consideration.
Makes sense. I figured you guys must have one by now. Although expensive, produces the best results. In the long run, it's probably even cheaper than broaching with the volumes you're doing.
Plus it's a lot more versatile than a broacher.
IF you want to run ATRS better than I do, no problem, just bring money.
This should simply end the discussion. I laid down the $$ in full for the 3rd run and am happy to wait for a quality product. The other option was a competitor that has product today but did not meet my quality and functionality requirements.
Hahaha yup that was me
ATRS Modern Sporter magwell
Competitor's magwell
What is happening here? Is their endmill is deflecting when they are peck drilling?
Those guys were all over the road when it came to QC, at least early on.
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