Double Action Snubby

Hope they paid you for your expert forensic opinion! Sent you a PM.

It's rare to ever be "paid" for an opinion in Mexico outside of the accepted professions, but "favours" are almost always returned at some point or other.

In the 1950's Eric Frank Russell wrote a Sci-Fi short story called "And Then there were None" about a society that was based upon personal freedom and obligation. You did not get "paid" for anything, but you planted an "ob" (obligation) on whomsoever you performed a requested service for. The whole Mexican -- and actually Latin American -- grassroots economy and civilization sort of work like that. What North Americans call "corruption" is often just an obligation-based form of performing services in return for which a "favour" will be owed for a return-service in the future. You can even "pay-ahead" an ob -- both in his story and in real life -- if the initial "gift" is accepted. The system is wide-open to all sorts of abuse at it's worst and is an underground system -- and at it's best it works very well.

Gringos and Canadians in Mexico often have a horrid understanding of the system, and often are not invited to partake in it anyway because they have nothing to "trade" (other than cold, hard cash) that the Mexicans can't get somewhere else. So they pay money. (How utterly disgusting!)
 
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I cannot vouch for this, but I have been told that the 38Spl cylinder in my Roger SP101 is made the same way as a 357Mag cylinder. I used to load 38Spl cases with 357 load data and shoot them. I stopped, while I was ahead. I have 38Spl guns and knew that Murphy would eventually bite me in the ass if I kept doing it.

But you could load your 357 ammo in 38Spl brass an shoot them in a SP101 chambered in 38Spl. A legal way to have the power you want in a kosher gun.

BnPZFOj.jpg



And this will generate enough velocity to make a HBWC expand. This is a Campro 188 plated, shot upside down. If the cavity was filled level with wax, would it be a "hollow point"?

This is a 38Spl. Note that it has a slightly shorter cylinder than a 357Mag Sp101

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Ironic how someone who is truly fearful for their lives will try and stuff as much power into a J frame snubby vs. the sport shooters who will use the heaviest guns and the minimal load that will cycle and meet power factor to compete.

Different world; if it's just a handful of rounds in a situation where sore or damaged hands would be the least of your worries then a lot of power in a tiny carryable gun makes eminent sense. On the other hand, if you're firing 200 rounds in a match then you can't afford recoil doing you injury, and less recoil also means a faster next shot. Basically every sport based on combat has re-optimized to score higher. Look at the sharp rigid swords people carried back when they lived or died by them, and compare to the flexible edgeless fencing foils that you can whip in around your opponent's defense and tap him for a point. And fencers train to tap, while real swordfighters trained to do grievous bodily damage.

Competition done by people who actually carry, sharpening their skills with their carry guns and ammunition, is a whole lot closer to the roots that Canadian sport shooting has abstracted away from; that makes these Mexican stories so interesting.
 
Originally the SP101 came out as a .38spl and a gunsmith in New Hampshire named Rick Devoid started converting them into .357 mag that could only handle 125 grain loads. Rick was one of Massad Ayoobs favourite gunsmiths and he began publicizing the conversion in his writings and nicknamed it the Pocket Rocket. Eventually Ruger was convinced to start manufacturing the gun in .357 but only in the 125 grain loading initially until they lengthened the frame and cylinder to handle all loadings.
In other words as long as you don’t try to go overboard the platform will handle .357 mag level power.
 
^^^^ I believe the 2 loads were the Federal and RP 125 JHPs. Both won the .357 category for One Shot Stops in Evan Marshall’s study or was it Hatcher in the late 80s or early 90s? Can’t remember anymore.

I think the Federal 115gr 9BP round won the 9mm category with numbers similar to the .357.
 
This thread makes me kick myself for not listening to Gord at Milarm when he advised everyone to buy a crappy old short barrel to get 12.6.
Oh well. When I move to USA for retirement, I can buy all the snubbies I desire.

Nice snubbies gentlemen!!!!

This thread is breaking the hearts of many who are not 12.6 'grandfathered'. Not to worry, as that is simply delayed confiscation and they will all eventually end up as scrap metal.

In the meantime, those that have them get to enjoy them as long as their clubs permit them. I've heard that the rcmp sends letters asking if you owners are actually using their 'prohibs'. It's wise to take them to the range and sign in to be able to prove use. 'Collection' may always be sufficient reason to own them. Even tho' they don't make "Minor" IPSC power factor, I enjoy mine regularly in practice, not sanctioned matches.

We had a baby faced rcmp type shoot with us back in the day. He was a narc, recruited right out of Depot as he looked the typical hipster. He asked me as Section Co-Ordinator if he could shoot his 'duty' gun in a match and I said - "Certainly". He showed up on the line in in gabardine slacks and tucked in sports shirt looking ever so cool. I asked him where his gun was and he said - "I'm wearing it. Trust me."

On the command "Load & Make Ready", he yanked up his pant leg and pulled a S&W 'J" frame out of an ankle holster. He carried additional speed loaders in his pocket. He hit all targets he shot at. We were all suitably impressed and while it wasn't a great rig for competition, it sure as hell would have kept him in the game on the street.
 
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My hottest 357 load for a 158 hard cast lead SWC is 1350fps from a 4" barrel. It drops to 1225 from a 3". A big drop, but the full sized frame is still a pig of a gun.

My hottest 158 load does 975 fps out of a 2" steel J frame (M60). The lightweight J frame hot load does 925 fps.

Better to have 925 fps in your pocket than 1300 fps at home.

Looks to me the Mexicans should be buying the Ruger SP101s in 2" or 3" and loading 357 pressures in 38Spl cases for them. That would pass any inspection.
 
Different world; if it's just a handful of rounds in a situation where sore or damaged hands would be the least of your worries then a lot of power in a tiny carryable gun makes eminent sense. On the other hand, if you're firing 200 rounds in a match then you can't afford recoil doing you injury, and less recoil also means a faster next shot. Basically every sport based on combat has re-optimized to score higher. Look at the sharp rigid swords people carried back when they lived or died by them, and compare to the flexible edgeless fencing foils that you can whip in around your opponent's defense and tap him for a point. And fencers train to tap, while real swordfighters trained to do grievous bodily damage.

Competition done by people who actually carry, sharpening their skills with their carry guns and ammunition, is a whole lot closer to the roots that Canadian sport shooting has abstracted away from; that makes these Mexican stories so interesting.

"PPC/IPSC shooting is to gun fighting as modern fencing is to sword fighting." Jeff Cooper

One is a game, the other a martial art. Since one cannot be in constant state of readiness, Cooper came up with the stress levels "White", "Yellow", "Orange", "Red"; "white" indicating totally switched off and "Red" meaning finger on trigger, front sight on target.

In competition, the shooter is not really in any of these zones as he has had all kinds of time to prepare mentally and physically. He is alert and ready to respond instantly.

When I became disillusioned with the game, I took up marathon running at the advanced age of 42. As part of the program, we were exposed to "visualization" training as Simon Fraser University from a sports medicine prof. We watched films of the Canadian Olympic Team training in various disciplines from basketball to diving. The idea being that if you cannot visualize yourself doing something, you cannot achieve it physically.

He told us how he divided up the SFU basketball team, one half sitting on the floor visualizing the perfect foul shot, the other actually practicing the shot. A half hour later, they had a competition and the "visualizers" won.

The film showed a Gold Medal diver visualizing the dive that won her gold. She rehearsed the dive 300 times in her mind - climbing the steps to the platform, feeling the grit of the board under her feet, the cool air on her skin, the take off, executing the dive and water entry.

The prof described it as being in the "zone", a term you often hear in tennis and top level golf worlds. He asked if anyone had ever experienced being in the "zone". Of 36 people, mine was the only hand in the air. He asked me to describe the experience.

I told him that it was at a national IPSC match and I was shooting a 9mm Browning in the longest, most complicated stage of the match. I had both physically and mentally rehearsed this stage to the point where I was dreaming about it. My gun and ammo were as ready and perfect as I could make them.

When I shot it, it was if I was moving in slow motion but I knew that I was moving fast and acutely aware of what was happening around me and the presence of the two ROs going through the stage with me. I had the sensation of watching myself shoot the stage from above, like an "out of body" experience.

The prof said that was exactly what he was talking about and asked if I was psyched "up" or "down". I asked why and he said that if I ever wanted to repeat the performance, I'd have to get into the same head space. I told him that I was the calmest person on the range and had to calm down the ROs so we could score and patch. I won the stage.

This took tremendous mental effort on my part and I can't imagine how draining it would be to do this level of preparation for the entirety of a big match. The closest we can get to it, the better we will do both on the street and on the range.

BTW - it works in marathoning as well. I got to the point where I could do a full 26.2 mile (42.6 km) marathon, go for a long walk afterwards and go to work the next day without a sore spot on my body.
 
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^^^^ I believe the 2 loads were the Federal and RP 125 JHPs. Both won the .357 category for One Shot Stops in Evan Marshall’s study or was it Hatcher in the late 80s or early 90s? Can’t remember anymore.

I think the Federal 115gr 9BP round won the 9mm category with numbers similar to the .357.

There was a time the FBI carry gun was the S&W 2-1/2" .357 snub with 125 gr ammo. It was a real challenge for many agents and eventually dropped for something less intimidating.
 
There was a time the FBI carry gun was the S&W 2-1/2" .357 snub with 125 gr ammo. It was a real challenge for many agents and eventually dropped for something less intimidating.

Did they switch it out for the Winchester 158gr. +P LSWCHP? Which “failed” at the Miami Shootout. Which introduced the 10mm which they couldn’t handle either and gave us the .40S&W today? And now, back to the 9mm?
 
"PPC/IPSC shooting is to gun fighting as modern fencing is to sword fighting." Jeff Cooper

One is a game, the other a martial art. Since one cannot be in constant state of readiness, Cooper came up with the stress levels "White", "Yellow", "Orange", "Red"; "white" indicating totally switched off and "Red" meaning finger on trigger, front sight on target.

In competition, the shooter is not really in any of these zones as he has had all kinds of time to prepare mentally and physically. He is alert and ready to respond instantly.

When I became disillusioned with the game, I took up marathon running at the advanced age of 42. As part of the program, we were exposed to "visualization" training as Simon Fraser University from a sports medicine prof. We watched films of the Canadian Olympic Team training in various disciplines from basketball to diving. The idea being that if you cannot visualize yourself doing something, you cannot achieve it physically.

He told us how he divided up the SFU basketball team, one half sitting on the floor visualizing the perfect foul shot, the other actually practicing the shot. A half hour later, they had a competition and the "visualizers" won.

The film showed a Gold Medal diver visualizing the dive that won her gold. She rehearsed the dive 300 times in her mind - climbing the steps to the platform, feeling the grit of the board under her feet, the cool air on her skin, the take off, executing the dive and water entry.

The prof described it as being in the "zone", a term you often hear in tennis and top level golf worlds. He asked if anyone had ever experienced being in the "zone". Of 36 people, mine was the only hand in the air. He asked me to describe the experience.

I told him that it was at a national IPSC match and I was shooting a 9mm Browning in the longest, most complicated stage of the match. I had both physically and mentally rehearsed this stage to the point where I was dreaming about it. My gun and ammo were as ready and perfect as I could make them.

When I shot it, it was if I was moving in slow motion but I knew that I was moving fast and acutely aware of what was happening around me and the presence of the two ROs going through the stage with me. I had the sensation of watching myself shoot the stage from above, like an "out of body" experience.

The prof said that was exactly what he was talking about and asked if I was psyched "up" or "down". I asked why and he said that if I ever wanted to repeat the performance, I'd have to get into the same head space. I told him that I was the calmest person on the range and had to calm down the ROs so we could score and patch. I won the stage.

This took tremendous mental effort on my part and I can't imagine how draining it would be to do this level of preparation for the entirety of a big match. The closest we can get to it, the better we will do both on the street and on the range.

BTW - it works in marathoning as well. I got to the point where I could do a full 26.2 mile (42.6 km) marathon, go for a long walk afterwards and go to work the next day without a sore spot on my body.

In 1984 I won the Grand Aggregate in Bisley, England. There were 1350 shooters there that week, and at the last match I was leading the pack by 2 points. I started the last match (15 shots at 600 yards) knowing that if I shot a perfect score, nobody could catch me. And I did, setting a record high score for the week.

It was a strange experience, that week, because I got into the "zone" by accident, but realized that with my new powers of concentration, I could shoot much better. It was almost like being hypnotized.

I had never heard of this before, but late in the week one of the other members of the Canadian Team explained to me what was happening and how I was doing it.

It was also very draining. When the week was over I was very happy and made the decision not to try to do it again. But I have the utmost respect for those athletes (golfers come to mind) who get in the zone frequently.
 
Here is a picture of a neat old snubby in my collection.
A Colt pocket positive Fitz special with the bobbed hammer. Dated 1937 originally shipped to Ambercrombie and Fitch New York and documented on Sam Liskers Colt Autos page.
http: //www.coltautos.com/DA/PocketPositive/pocketpositiveci_157993.htm

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tIhJRgDl.jpg
 
Did they switch it out for the Winchester 158gr. +P LSWCHP? Which “failed” at the Miami Shootout. Which introduced the 10mm which they couldn’t handle either and gave us the .40S&W today? And now, back to the 9mm?

I don't recall, but it would be an easy search on the net.

But in the meantime - "Traigo mi Cuarenta y Cinco".
 
Did they switch it out for the Winchester 158gr. +P LSWCHP? Which “failed” at the Miami Shootout. Which introduced the 10mm which they couldn’t handle either and gave us the .40S&W today? And now, back to the 9mm?

The .38 Spec 158 gr LSWC-HP actually "finished" the Miami Gunfight in the hand of Ed Mireles, the real failure that drove the change to 10mm was the 115 gr W-W Silvertip HP...
 
You would make Cooper proud!

I don't know about that ....

I shot Browning Hi-Powers in competition for years as it was the gun I was familiar with from Regular Army. In the era, you were on your own as far as after market goodies and gunsmithing were concerned. However, I did embrace the Cooper dictum of "Applied Firepower":

"A gun fight is not won by the first round fired or the number of rounds fired, but by the first round that finds the intended mark."

I did that quite effectively with the Hi-Power.

But after I shot a few 1911s and realized what pussycats they were to control, I was hooked. And there were all those aftermarket goodies and add ons ..... !

The 1911 is the AR15 of handguns in that regard.
 
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