Faster powders for shorter barrels - say 1680 for a 16 inch 308

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steelgray said:
A 16-20" bolt gun in 7.62x39 is a good solution for people who like a handy, deer-capable brush gun that is a pleasure to shoot. However I'd go for the same bullet weight in a 308 Win (loaded with say 125Gr PSPs - of which I already have many) but yielding another 200 or so FPS over what 7.62x39 can deliver.

I don't want some light load of slow powder (which will still deliver a pretty significant, unnecessary muzzle blast) but a decent load of a faster powder (without the drama). Sort of a 7.62x39 plus load - loaded in readily available 308 cases.
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Some people like to do things the hard way. Doing things the hard way can be rewarding if say you are building a table and want to use all hand tools and joints with no metal fasteners. But most of the time when people do things the hard way it's because they are ignorant.

You want a 16.5" barrel .308 to run about 200fps more than a 7.62x39, so about 2550 FPS and you don't want recoil or muzzle blast.

The two easy ways to do that is to pick a starting load with a powder that has published data and offers moderate velocity....or use the H4895 60% rule and adjust up or down to tailor your load.

The hard way is to come up with some obscure theory and try to hammer that square peg into the round hole hoping that you can make it fit.
 
Gatehouse said:
Some people like to do things the hard way. Doing things the hard way can be rewarding if say you are building a table and want to use all hand tools and joints with no metal fasteners. But most of the time when people do things the hard way it's because they are ignorant.

You want a 16.5" barrel .308 to run about 200fps more than a 7.62x39, so about 2550 FPS and you don't want recoil or muzzle blast.

The two easy ways to do that is to pick a starting load with a powder that has published data and offers moderate velocity....or use the H4895 60% rule and adjust up or down to tailor your load.

The hard way is to come up with some obscure theory and try to hammer that square peg into the round hole hoping that you can make it fit.
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Good ideas, but I was l looking for more like 2700 FPS with a 125 gr. PSP without a lot of drama. I know of the H4895 option but the AA1680 thing still intrigues me.

BTW if people think I just have a problem with slow powders they should actually just read my read the opening post. I also make a case for using slower burning pistol powders for loads in their 9MM carbines.

My view is really that people should be more open to making adjustments to the powders they use to reflect the barrel lengths involved.

That is, use a faster powder for your 2 1/2" 357 magnum and a much slower power for .357 ammo for your Marlin 1895 carbine.

People just seem to have a complete blind spot for this point. When you raise the obvious, it takes them out of their comfort zone and they decide to engage in personal attacks - as some weird reflex. ... like below. Sad
 
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steelgray said:
I know a guy who shot a deer right in the butt with a 300 Win Mag. As I remember, that didn't work out too well. You wouldn't want any of that hamburger.

I did shoot a medium-sized black bear at close range with an 18 inch Sako full stock 338 Magnum. No meat was harvested there either - as it was full of worms.

BTW in case you haven't figured it out yet I was kidding about the step ladder
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OK, I'm getting it NOW. So you actually never HAVE shot one with a .300WM or seen one shot, but you heard a story once about a guy who shot one once upon a time. In the a** no less. And that proves the .300 makes a mess all the time.

You should just stop.
 
Well, a couple of very knowledgeable members are going to give your theory a try.
Seems to be something that you could be doing as well.
 
Hitzy said:
This is this same guy that blew up his M14 with his handloads and blames the gun design...
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Are you referring to the M14 he blew up AFTER he blew up the 22 pistol, but BEFORE he blew up the 10mm carbine?


If I’d blown up 3 guns, I think I’d be apt to get others to try my powder experiments for me too...
 
r700 .308 with 16.5 inch barrel , surefire warcomp and surefire warden

my favorite most pleasant load to shot is
hornady 150gr FMJ, with 26gr IMR 4227, length to cannelure
shoots MOA, very low recoil, very low noise, almost like 22lr ( i dont wear earplugs when shooting this load ), very cheap to load.

averages 2000 fps
 
steelgray said:
Good ideas, but I was l looking for more like 2700 FPS with a 125 gr. PSP without a lot of drama. I know of the H4895 option but the AA1680 thing still intrigues me.

BTW if people think I just have a problem with slow powders they should actually just read my read the opening post. I also make a case for using slower burning pistol powders for loads in their 9MM carbines.

My view is really that people should be more open to making adjustments to the powders they use to reflect the barrel lengths involved.

That is, use a faster powder for your 2 1/2" 357 magnum and a much slower power for .357 ammo for your Marlin 1895 carbine.

People just seem to have a complete blind spot for this point. When you raise the obvious, it takes them out of their comfort zone and they decide to engage in personal attacks - as some weird reflex. ... like below. Sad
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You aren't the first person to think about using faster powder in a short barrel, you aren't breaking new ground here.

If you want 2700 FPS using a 125gr bullet, the solution is the same. it's actually even simpler. Pick any published data, use a starting load and use your Labradar to tailor the load to the velocity and muzzle blast you want. You won't achieve any significant "improvement" in your desired goals by using a powder like 1680

Once again, you can do it the easy way or the hard way. Please proceed with your experiments and report back.
 
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Originally Posted by kodiakjack


Are you referring to the M14 he blew up AFTER he blew up the 22 pistol, but BEFORE he blew up the 10mm carbine?

If I’d blown up 3 guns, I think I’d be apt to get others to try my powder experiments for me too...


Gatehouse said:
Is this correct? Steelgray has blown up 3 guns with his handloads?
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This is getting interesting now!
:popCorn:
 
I loaded ammo tonight.

Used 180 gr MatchKings over RL-15 and Win 680

And loaded 125gr over H4894

I will shoot these in a 24.5" Shultz Larsen M54 and a 18" FR8

I will shoot increasing charges in each rifle until I get pressure signs. Used Federal brass. It will show pressure.

Will shoot over my Chrony on Saturday.
 
todbartell said:
A 303 British 174gr / H4895 load, peak pressure comes when the bullet has traveled 1.2" down the bore
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I know that Ganderite has otherwise suggested that, with a fast powder the peak pressure might come at 1". We also seem to know that, with most conventional loads, the majority of the powder is burned by the time that the bullet leaves a common length barrel - such as a 22 inch one. That bullet normally leaves such a barrel in about 1.2 Ms with conventional loads. However, the graph that he posted - of the pressure curve associated with a common 308 load - shows that pressure is still building up to 5 Ms after ignition - and that the peak of this pressure curve looks to me like comes at about .5 Ms (fairly close to the time when you'd expect the bullet to leave the bore).

hoLCpt9.jpg


Can anyone explain this apparent discrepancy?
 

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