Ontario moose ... New Rules

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https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/thunder-bay/ontario-moose-tag-changes-1.5475205?fbclid=IwAR2PwfNtBmLdYouiOItLkc2qNj7c_wEfai9UxzFzaaqL_0U04FSThvo4T5I


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Significant changes to Ontario moose tags coming in 2021
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Tag prices will increase, but licence cost will decrease
CBC News · Posted: Feb 25, 2020 12:30 PM ET | Last Updated: 11 hours ago
In 2021, the fee for a bull validation tag in Ontario will increase to $200. (photo: Mike Boylan, U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service)

Significant changes are coming to how Ontario's hunters get moose validation tags, and how much they pay for them.

But most will not kick in until 2021.

The changes were informed through consultation with the Big Game and Management Advisory Committee (BGMAC) and include further restrictions on calf hunting and moving from a draw to a points-based system.

"We're taking a smarter approach to moose harvest management to deliver on our commitment to make moose hunting fairer and more accessible while ensuring the sustainability of our moose population," said John Yakabuski, the province's minister of natural resources and forestry.

"Our government recognizes the importance of moose hunting to Ontario families and communities, and we want to ensure Ontarians have opportunities to get outdoors and enjoy our natural resources today and long into the future."
Pay for tags

The ministry said starting in 2021, moose harvest will be managed with bull tags, cow/calf tags, and calf tags, with wildlife management unit specific calf tag quotas across the province.

Each of those tags would have their own cost, with a bull tag priced the highest at $200. A hunter who buys a $35 licence, pays the $15 application fee and is who is successful getting a bull tag will have a total cost of $250.

Calf tags would be priced at $30 and cow/calf tags would be $150.

The ministry said these prices reflect hunter demand and ensure continued support for the management of the resource.

With the new system, a cow/calf tag could be used to harvest either a cow or a calf, a bull tag could only be used to harvest a bull moose, and a calf-specific tag could only be used to harvest a calf.

Bull and cow/calf tags will be season-specific to bow or gun season, but calf tags could be used over the full length of the season within that wildlife management unit.

Under the current system, the moose hunting licence costs $50 and there is no an additional charge for the tags.

Changes will also come to the moose hunting licence in 2021.
The Ministry of Natural Resources and Forestry said starting in 2021, moose harvest will be managed with bull tags, cow/calf tags, and calf tags, with wildlife management unit specific calf tag quotas across the province. (The Associated Press/Carolyn Kaster)

The ministry said the moose hunting licence will change to a product that allows hunting of moose but does not come with a tag that would allow the harvest of a moose.

The resident moose hunting licence fee will be reduced to $35.

A hunter can purchase a moose hunting licence to party hunt with another tag holder but won't be required to purchase a moose hunting licence to apply for a tag.

Hunters will apply to the moose tag allocation process with a $15 application fee.
New points-based system

A hunter's draw history will be used to determine the number of points they have accumulated. The ministry said the information will be made available to hunters later this year.

Points will be awarded based on the total number of years a hunter has applied and been unsuccessful in the draw.

Continuous applications won't be required. Being issued a bull or cow tag through the draw or receiving a tag transfer will reset a hunter's points to zero in that year. If hunters claim a tag they are awarded through the allocation process, they would be required to purchase a $35 licence and their tag.

Non-residents will pay a higher moose licence fee and the same tag costs.

The ministry said a detailed description of the process will be available later this year.

Ontario will also continue to conduct moose aerial inventory surveys in specific areas each winter, which will help estimate moose population status and trends to ensure continued sustainability of moose in the province.

"We are pleased to see the government moving forward with changes to Ontario's moose management program," said big game committee chair John Kaplanis in the provincially-issued release. "We feel the changes will strengthen moose harvest management in Ontario and provide latitude to adapt to the variety of challenges that are inherent in moose management."
 
I cannot believe they're still offering calf tags to satisfy the "any moose is better than no moose" crowd of hunters.

Populations are decreasing while many claim predation and poaching is steadily increasing, so let's allow hunters to keep on hunting calves so there's even fewer making it to maturity.

A few years of bulls only while encouraging hunters to target predators, possibly with a bounty, might help the population rebound?
 
I am disappointed that they will continue to offer calf tags.

As Canadian Hunter 312 said, with declining populations, is it really a good idea to shoot the recruitment? When I have mentioned this previously, some folks have replied that calves have a fairly low survival rate, so if you take a calf, it might not have made it anyways... My reply to that is, if you shoot the calf, it most certainly won't reach adulthood to reproduce OR enable you to take an adult moose!

Cheers
Jay
 
“We’ve come up with a solution to fix the problem!... But just in case, we’re going to leave the problem imbedded in the solution.”


But I’m on board with the points system, as long as there’s the ability for drawn hunters to decline a tag and stay in the pool with their points intact.
 
With over 20 years of not being drawn for a tag, I would have enough points to be at the front of the line. Kidding aside, I see they've recognized the selective harvest program has not been working for the past 40 years. But, I'm not so sure this new system and it's vastly increased costs will make people happy either.
 
canadian hunter312 said:
I cannot believe they're still offering calf tags to satisfy the "any moose is better than no moose" crowd of hunters.

Populations are decreasing while many claim predation and poaching is steadily increasing, so let's allow hunters to keep on hunting calves so there's even fewer making it to maturity.

A few years of bulls only while encouraging hunters to target predators, possibly with a bounty, might help the population rebound?
Click to expand...

IIRC the new rules limit calf tags. Meaning in a select WMU there are only so many calf tags available based on population counts. It won't be like it is now where you buy a tag and hunt calves. You have to apply for a calf tag and if selected to can then option to purchase the calf tag. The number of cow, bull and calf tags issued will be based on the animal numbers and what can be sustained as harvest to each unique WMU. Calf tags will no longer be a "given".

Darryl
 
my72jeep said:
Ya but $250 for a bull tag! On top of all other costs! Guess moose hunting is now a rich mans sport.
Click to expand...

It will be for a solo hunter. I think most groups will still hunt together as usual. When a member of the group gets a bull tag the other members would help cover the cost and then buy the 35.00 moose hunting licence and party hunt with the bull tag holder. This system will help eliminate the abuses under the present "group" hunt system.
Darryl
 
It seems as though they are really subtly pushing for group hunts. I hunt as part of a group and we always have had enough for guaranteed group size tags. This may make it interesting as from what I read there doesn't seem to be guaranteed group allotments mentioned.
 
Surveys over the years have shown that the vast majority of Ontario moose hunters hunt in groups. This was the purpose for the group system. Unfortunately the system like all has been abused. I also hunt in a group. There are eight of us and we usually get one adult tag per year. 8 hunters 1 moose. We do have calf tags but we have not killed a calf in years. The calf tags come as part of the deal when in the lottery "buy first" take your chances system we presently have. I talked to another group over the years and asked how they had such luck in getting adult tags. These guys would show up in the area we hunt with 12 hunters and 8 or 9 cow and bull tags among them. Turns out that the actual group of guys that apply number 30 to 40. Only the ones that get a tag in the group go hunting. They were always lucky and shot 5or 6 moose each fall. This is legal but I think an abuse as the concentration of tags to these hunters group was not the intent of the group regulation. Retaining party hunting is (I believe as it is so popular) the government's attempt to salvage some of the traditional group hunting for moose.

Darryl
 
So a goberment solution to a problem is as bad as the problem at the first place.

If you keep allowing calf tags, where the moose will come from :stirthepot2:

And one wolf tag in north - just icing on cake !
 
Jay said:
I am disappointed that they will continue to offer calf tags.

As Canadian Hunter 312 said, with declining populations, is it really a good idea to shoot the recruitment? When I have mentioned this previously, some folks have replied that calves have a fairly low survival rate, so if you take a calf, it might not have made it anyways... My reply to that is, if you shoot the calf, it most certainly won't reach adulthood to reproduce OR enable you to take an adult moose!

Cheers
Jay
Click to expand...

The only difference I can see is that until these changes are implemented,every hunter buying a Moose license automatically got a calf tag,resulting in an increased counter-productive calf harvest rate. Due to adult tag allocation being vastly restricted,that resulted in groups only hunting with calf tags. With a new restricted calf licensing system,only certain WMU's will have designated calf tag allocations. No doubt,they will be very few and far between.
 
Trimmer 905 said:
The only difference I can see is that until these changes are implemented,every hunter buying a Moose license automatically got a calf tag,resulting in an increased counter-productive calf harvest rate. Due to adult tag allocation being vastly restricted,that resulted in groups only hunting with calf tags. With a new restricted calf licensing system,only certain WMU's will have designated calf tag allocations. No doubt,they will be very few and far between.
Click to expand...

well that is a problem.... I support calf only tags but they need to be controlled like any other draw.

Looks like Ontario has looked at other provinces draw systems and has adopted some of what seems to work.

I never understood group tags or priority.

one of the zones where I hunt they stopped having cow/calf tags, (antlerless) and went to draw only calf tag or a draw only bull tag. 20 years later there are tons of moose in that zone. normally see 3 or 4 moose a day. But there is a limit to how many tags are available for calf.

Sounds like your problem is Ontario was issuing unlimited calf tags, that can't be sustainable.

as for Cow tags, that's stupid, your killing your breeding stock, so unless you are trying to reduce total population Cows should not be hunted.
 
Calf tags and cow/calf tags are reasonable ways of controlling the harvest of calves vs uncontrolled harvest.

Under last falls regs, if you had a cow tag and the calf season was closed, if you shot a cow with a calf then you effectively killed 2 moose as the calf had 0% chance of surviving the winter season. QHPenny and I ran into this exact situation last Nov 11 with her having a cow tag. The cow did not get harvested. It became a legal vs moral ethics situation - we legally could shoot the cow but ethically we were creating a situation where the calf would not survive.

As much as everyone rails against killing calves, in this situation I would have rather harvested the calf and left the breeding age cow for 2 reasons - higher survival rate for adults in the winter and producing calves for the next year. Even with a cow, an Ontario calf has a 50% mortality rate during the winter. It usually takes 2 1/2 years before females breed and produce cows.

My 2 cents
 
retiredsaf said:
But nothing to regulate the treaty hunting long before the regular seasons start.
Click to expand...

Before, during and after the regular season.....
Nothing more dis-concerning than having someone shoot a rifle over your head when your moose hunting in a bows only season and the CO just shrugs his shoulders.....
 
woodchopper said:
well that is a problem.... I support calf only tags but they need to be controlled like any other draw.

Looks like Ontario has looked at other provinces draw systems and has adopted some of what seems to work.

I never understood group tags or priority.

one of the zones where I hunt they stopped having cow/calf tags, (antlerless) and went to draw only calf tag or a draw only bull tag. 20 years later there are tons of moose in that zone. normally see 3 or 4 moose a day. But there is a limit to how many tags are available for calf.

Sounds like your problem is Ontario was issuing unlimited calf tags, that can't be sustainable.

as for Cow tags, that's stupid, your killing your breeding stock, so unless you are trying to reduce total population Cows should not be hunted.
Click to expand...

Yes,that was exactly the issue. Thousands of Ontario hunters recognized that as a serious issue when it was first implemented and lobbied hard to stop it. Unfortunately,because it was such a revenue generator,government turned a deaf ear. Finally,there's a government in power who aren't afraid to make the tough decisions needed to remedy the situation.

bush1 said:
Before, during and after the regular season.....
Nothing more dis-concerning than having someone shoot a rifle over your head when your moose hunting in a bows only season and the CO just shrugs his shoulders.....
Click to expand...

We all know that First Nations are governed only be federal law. Provincial regulations don't apply. That's why there's such a serious issue with the FN hunt across Canada. The treaty agreements need to be amended,but,as long as there's a federal government in Ottawa that's completely paralyzed by "political correctness",it'll never happen.
 
my72jeep said:
Ya but $250 for a bull tag! On top of all other costs! Guess moose hunting is now a rich mans sport.
Click to expand...

But you're only paying $15 to apply instead of $60 so your pocketing $45 for each year you are not successful. If it takes 5 years to be drawn(likely more) then you will have the $200 for a bull tag.
 
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