Working mans double

There's truth in ardents words. However human nature gets in the way and throws emotional connection at inanimate objects. I have inherited several firearms from my great grandfather and will inherit my grandfathers guns as well. Theyll never be sold off even if i dont use them often. Then theres the guns that were set as personal goals to obtain. Even if they were only lowly grade working guns. Even a rifle that was used to harvest your first big game animals or ones gifted by a friend or kept in honor of a lost friend. Id love to say i could live with only 4 or 5 high grade guns. For hunting tools sure but to me my firearms are more than tools. Theyre the gateway to some of the best ppl in my life. Guns have brought me my closest friends and shape my lifestyle. I for one will make sacrifices in other areas of my life and enjoy a collection of what brings me happiness. Hopefully my collection will grow to include some very fine pieces
After all its just money. You can always make more. If you dont spend it on something that makes you happy its just wasted anyway
 
brybenn said:
Bwanadave. Plz dont forget how to make a new pin lol. Just in case mine decides to crap the bed on me.
Im sure we could come to an agreement for labour costs. Say gold...macallan gold lol

Anyway im glad its back to booming. Im hoping time and circumstances will allow me to chase a bear this spring with one of my doubles be it my 4570 or my 10ga
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Brybenn I'm sure I've got enough old bolts to make a couple more so if you do get in a pickle you know where to find me.
You'll have to grind the center 1/8 to 3/16 inch of a standard slotted screwdriver right in the middle back about 1/4 inch so that your able to unscrew the pin/spring retainer (picture a 7/16 screwdriver blade with a rectangle missing from the center) once you drive the larger diameter pin out far enough to remove the hammer on the affected side. Bottom plate/trigger guard/butt stock must come off first. Dont drop the spring!

Angus, I need to be humbled and eat a bit of crow from time to time (just ask my wife). In fact I've ate enough that I'm getting used to the taste.


We'll go spey fishing one day and have a grand old chat standing in the skeena chucking line and sipping whiskey.
I'd really like that.
 
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Buckmastr said:
He likes it. Took it to Zimbabwe last summer with a 375 bolt gun. I can’t remember all the details but a stinky giraffe bull died at the hands of his 450/400. IIRC he was shooting Hornady factory ammo.
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I simply can't understand anyone thinking that a Giraffe is a game animal, anymore than shooting a cow!
 
leec12 said:
I simply can't understand anyone thinking that a Giraffe is a game animal, anymore than shooting a cow!
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I simply can't understand anyone making pronouncements like this on a shooting/hunting forum...

I forgot all about this thread...despite having just acquired a working man's double! Perusing the EE recently I saw an ad from Italian Sporting Goods for a brand new Brno Express rifle. It's a nice little O/U in 9.3x74r, looks like the same gun as the .308/12gauge combo gun that Wolverine offered a year or two back. I liked the combo, but not enough to actually buy one...but I took one look at this 2-barrel rifle and the googling started. Not a huge amount of info to be found, but Jake and Oliver at ISG were extremely helpful in answering questions. Long story short: I bought it. Arrived a couple days ago.

First impressions were excellent. Nice wood, good metal/wood fit, much smaller and handier than it appeared in pics. Definitely under 7 pounds in weight. Barrels are adjustable for regulation by the owner, and right out of the box the gun prints about a 3-inch group, L/R/L/R, at 50 yards. Two distinct sub-groups, with the upper barrel printing about 1.5 inches above the lower. This should regulate beautifully, although I haven't tried that yet. The ammo was some old handloads left over from a past rifle.

Nice bonus: the gun's receiver grooves match perfectly with a QD scope mount for the Haenel Jaeger model 9 single-shot rifle. Since I have two of those mounts, I am set. The gun's POI doesn't change at all with either scope or iron sights, but the irons are a wee bit low for me to use. I may, if I keep it long term, dress down the Euro hogback stock comb a bit to facilitate this; but it fits me nicely now and I am pretty much past my iron sight days, so probably no.t.

A couple of negatives: first and foremost, the gun has a single trigger. I would prefer two triggers, but at least the second barrel is cocked along with the first by opening the rifle; if there's a dud in the first (bottom) barrel, the second will still be ready to go. So, there is a single trigger that you pull twice to shoot twice. Sadly, both trigger pulls are kinda rough and creepy, but I assume that this should be correctable without too much grief.

The auto safety needs to be disengaged each time the gun is opened and reloaded. Double rifle purists will howl about this, 'cause they need to be ready to pump 4 quick shots into that charging gazork that's about to smash into them. I won't be using this on dangerous game, so I can't say I'm too worried; it already gives me two lightning quick shots, so what more do I need? The gun is extractor-only, perfect for reloading silently while standing directly underneath that elephant who is angrily looking around for you. Too bad that the safety...which you must deactivate each and every time you open the rifle...sounds like the door shutting on an F150 truck...:( Empties fall right out, no sticking, no fumbling required.

This rifle didn't cost much more than many people are now demanding for a used Baikal SxS rifle, and I've owned several of those; I can definitely state that this is several times the rifle that the Baikal is. It's not a Holland & Holland, or even a Merkel, but it you don't mind an O/U, this thing is darn near irresistible. Probably comes in other chamberings; I don't know and don't care. The 9.3 is the perfect cartridge for a 'light" double rifle; it's not quite as versatile as a .375H&H, but the only real difference you will see is at ranges beyond about 200 or 250 yards. I love this cartridge!

Yeah, yeah, I know...this thread is worthless without pictures. You're right, but I'm lazy. If you are interested, the original EE ad from ISG might still be up and has a couple. Or, I might get off my ass and snap a couple; I'll be shooting it again today, so ya never know...:)
 
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I have acquired a 30-06 baikal and so far it’s been fun. I just need to start load development and get it regulated. I have lots of 220gr round nose laying around so will use them to start.
The problem I’m going to have is one barrel shoots higher then the other so I think I may have a hard time getting it regulated very close at 50 yards.
After this covid thing I’m selling off some guns and going to save for a real double. Having a hard time deciding on a caliber though. I’m thinking 30-06 again or 9.3x74r
 
I've had a couple of .30-06 doubles; still have one. Every time you pick up, load, fire, or empty a double rifle chambered in .30-06, you always go "Wow! I coulda had a 9.3x74r!" :bangHead:
 
jjohnwm said:
I've had a couple of .30-06 doubles; still have one. Every time you pick up, load, fire, or empty a double rifle chambered in .30-06, you always go "Wow! I coulda had a 9.3x74r!" :bangHead:
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X2... get the 9.3X74R... the cartridge is well suited to a double rifle.
 
Ardent said:
I personally don’t think a 9.3x74R has anything in the real world on a 220gr .30-06, it’s apples to apples but the .30-06 is easier to feed.
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Effectiveness? Agree completely.

Propriety? A rimmed cartridge is just plain "right" in a double...and a rimmed one isn't.

Coolness? Not even close! :)
 
I'm going to put in a word for hunting giraffe. And 9.3's. I was offered a chance to hunt giraffe last October in NW Namibia. The area we were in had been experiencing a severe drought for the last couple years. Worst in recorded history, almost 500 years. Game managers the whole region were very concerned about balancing the animals with the available habitat and food. A neighbouring property had just done a survey by helicopter with the aid of biologists and determined that there were about 90 giraffe in a particular area that could only support about 30, 40 at most. So they needed to reduce the herd by more than half. I was offered a chance to hunt giraffe there at less than the cost of kudu or gemsbok, both of which I'd already taken a couple of previously. I figured, why not give it a try, since they were going to be commercially harvested by professional cullers anyway. I could judge giraffe hunting for myself, and in the process, the "trophy" fee would be additional revenue that that would help pay for the management of all the animals, not just the giraffe. I was very glad I did.

I also took it as a chance to use my Merkel 140 AE, .450-400 3" Nitro Express on something even bigger & heavier than the Cape buffalo I had shot the previous week. Yes that's correct, mature giraffe are easily heavier than a buffalo. And they have thicker skin too. It was supposed to be a relatively "easy" hunt. It turned out anything but. We used binoculars and could spot giraffe in singles and small groups quite easily from the tops of the hills. Getting down into the sparse trees and then getting close enough to the correct young bull or old cow was another matter entirely.

We did something like six or seven stalks between dawn and late afternoon. Just try sneaking up to within 150 M of an animal with eyesight the equivalent of a pronghorn antelope but with those eyes mounted on top of a treetop - length neck. Those keen eyes were well clear of the branches, but their chests & vitals were usually effectively covered. We got a little frustrated as each time we tried, the giraffe moved off when we got within 200-300 meters. I wasn't about to try a neck shot with my Merkel at that range. Even though it is quite accurate, it is not that accurate. I'm not either. We even ran after some, knowing that they had spotted us and we had nothing to lose - except tearing our legs up on the thorn brush. But we failed to intercept. Each giraffe that we did spook seemed to be swallowed up by the countryside. Uncanny how they would make themselves disappear in relatively thin bush. We never got a second chance on any of them.

In the late afternoon, hot and tired and thirsty, I switched rifles to my Verney-Carron Impact Plus 9.3x62 with 6x S&B scope. That felt like a bit more appropriate equipment for the circumstances. My PH Johann and I spotted an ancient cow hanging out with a couple of younger ones. Once again we couldn't even get to 200 meters. Busted. On the long hot walk to meet the bakkie and our companions. we spotted a young bull moving towards us, not too far ahead. We snuck in for an intercept, and Johann set up the sticks when the bull got to about 150 meters. One carefully aimed shot and two quick follow up " insurance" shots high and well forward in the chest and we were done.
When we delivered the carcass to the butcher shop in town I learned that the giraffe meat was just as welcome for their biltong and sausage making as any game, and they were quite pleased to have the meat to work with. They paid the landowner well for the meat. I didn't get to try any, my only regret.

And Ardent, I respect your opinions and experience, but I must disagree with you on the efficacy of the 30-06 / 220 gr. vs. 9.3 / 286 gr. load. The Norma Oryx bullet I used is shown in the last photo. It penetrated about a meter of Giraffe, ( and through hide that was VERY thick) and made a permanent wound channel about double the size of what I'd expect from a .30 cal bullet. The giraffe only went about 20 M after a hit through the tops of both lungs. My PH would have refused if I asked to carry a .30-06 for this hunt.
 

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Ardent said:
I personally don’t think a 9.3x74R has anything in the real world on a 220gr .30-06, it’s apples to apples but the .30-06 is easier to feed.
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I tend to think of the 286 grain 9.3x74r loads as being more similar to a 300 grain .375 H&H than it is to a 220 grain 30-06. Plus factory 9.3x74r 286 grain ammo seems more readily available than factory 220 grain 30-06 ammo. And if you reload they’re equally easy to feed.
 
I think some people are lumping the 9.3X74R into the same category as the 9.3X62, the only thing they have in common IMO is the caliber.
The 9.3X74R has a lot lower pressure ceiling the the 9.3X62 which equates to several hundred FPS slower.
Not that it matters to me, in a SxS I would be using a rimmed cartridge, I had an express rifle in 6.5X55 Swede and much prefer my rimmed cartridges in the SxS guns I have owned.
Cat
 
CanadaBoy said:
I tend to think of the 286 grain 9.3x74r loads as being more similar to a 300 grain .375 H&H than it is to a 220 grain 30-06. Plus factory 9.3x74r 286 grain ammo seems more readily available than factory 220 grain 30-06 ammo. And if you reload they’re equally easy to feed.
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Respect the experience, I think there’s a large difference between my former 9.3x74R and 9.3x62s for the record. I wouldn’t directly compare the 9.3x62 on equal footing to the 220gr .30-06, though I can confidently say I’d use the 220gr .30-06 on anything I’d use the 9.3x62 on.

My 9.3x74R threw factory Norma 286gr through the chrono at 2200fps, and the .30-06 220gr runs 2450fps. Energy and penetration are identical, and I’ve yet to see bullet diameter make a difference in wound tract with quality bullets in a goodly few head of game, it was a theory I was loath to abandon as a “ardent” fan of medium and big bores. Today I believe bore diameter is really only useful for increasing efficiency / improving the expansion ratio of burning powder. The weight and speed of impact of the bullets is all that has seemed to matter, a 220gr .30 cal and a 230gr 9.3 or 235gr .375 arriving at the same speed with equal quality bullets make indiscernibly identical wound channels, though the .30 cal may go deeper (mooted in this discussion as we’re discussing 286gr 9.3s, which have sectional density to match the .30).

Totally agree on Giraffe skin and their tenacity Longwalker, here’s one from 2010 culling in Zim. Had to use two hands on the knife and a foot on the animal to cut through the inch thick leather, I was sweating profusely 20 mins into the all afternoon job. It will be my last giraffe experience. :d Hell on knives too, that skin is pure leather, not a drip of fat in it, it’s armour evolved against lions.

NUpAPxN.jpg
 
In the spirit of a fun discussion, I'll offer this. How large is "a large difference" between the 9.3x74R vs 9.3x62? 2329 fps vs 2362 fps = Norma factory load specifications with the same 286 gr. Oryx bullet. I haven't compared them side by side with the same bullet/manufacturer at a shooting range, but wouldn't be surprised if my 9.3x74 shot just a wee touch faster ( 24" barrel Beretta O/U ) than my 9.3x62 does ( 22" barrel Verney Carron bolt action). Seems like they are pretty similar to me.
Dr. Kevin Robertson ( Author of "The perfect Shot") has taken over 650 cape buffalo with his 9.3 x 62, he seems to think it is a bit more capable than the .30-06. I dunno, I have only shot one buffalo and used my .450-400 :).
 
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