Scope bubble levels

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MartyK2500

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For the 2nd time in 8 months, I have a scope bubble level poop on me.
It's on my winter rifles that it happens, they don't like the cold.

It's the vortex lo pro bubbles, both 30mm and 34mm have failed.
By failing, it's the liquid vial that empties itself, and my rifles didn't even see rough handling conditions.
Not even sure I wish to replace them I have lost trust in the product.

What brand do you guys prefer and use?
Any good luck here with the accuracy 1st scope level?

Thanks!
 
I have an Accuracy 1st and I like it. It takes a little getting used to since it moves opposite to a bubble level and my brain is conditioned to that.
 
There's a big thread on snipershide with some very interesting conversation on this topic. But essentially, the system between your ears is much more accurate then any bubble level you will put on your rifle will be.

I use David Tubbs bubble levels on my scopes, but I don't really use them. Will probably just yank them off my scopes.

Read here
 
kthomas said:
There's a big thread on snipershide with some very interesting conversation on this topic. But essentially, the system between your ears is much more accurate then any bubble level you will put on your rifle will be.

I use David Tubbs bubble levels on my scopes, but I don't really use them. Will probably just yank them off my scopes.

Read here
Click to expand...

Got to post #30 in that thread but have to get back to it tomorrow as I am running out of time.
Thanks for sharing, this is literally a huge misconception I had about LR shooting.
I did spend many evenings at the 900M line too.
To me shooting without a level was unimaginable.

For now I wont buy a level, and once the Kung Flu passes and ranges reopen, i’ll get my 4’ level out with a wide sharpie.
I’ll make a nice wide line at 100M and focus on finding a repeatable shooting position to dry fire to.
 
I bought a version, can't remember the name............ I find it helpful, and things like cooked trees and hillsides can wreck havoc with your internal anti-cant calibration. Wait, mountingsolutionsplus.com ACD. Had it for like 10 years probably.
Used it yesterday when shooting out to 1000, it seemed like I was usually half a bubble out before I looked at it and corrected it. Was shooting off a large hill at small angle towards the target.
 
The accuracy 1st is the most sensitive level I have used. It is always visible to my left eye when behind the rifle and even when I think I am dead on, it will let me know if I have just a hair of cant (happens quite often).

k0zLnR4.jpg
 
kthomas said:
But essentially, the system between your ears is much more accurate then any bubble level you will put on your rifle will be.
Click to expand...

The "system between your ears" is rather prone to errors due to quite a few different factors. And the Mk.I eyeball, is hardly a refined system either.
 
I have a bunch (5) of the US Optics rail mounted foldable bubble levels. They've always worked great from +30 to -30 degrees.

But these days, they are hard to find.
 
7ECA said:
The "system between your ears" is rather prone to errors due to quite a few different factors. And the Mk.I eyeball, is hardly a refined system either.
Click to expand...

Others would disagree. It's a pretty refined system developed through many many years of evolution. There are things that can throw it off, but overall it's pretty robust and accurate.

Those $10-30 bubble levels aren't always accurate, and a LOT of people don't use their bubble level past the first shot so it's a waste anyways.

A lot of the top precision rifle trainers I know say they are a waste of money.
 
I've read that thread on SH and normally Frank is pretty bang on but I disagree with his whole thing about scope mounted levels being a waste of money. I shoot in the mountains more often than not and when you don't have a defined horizon line I find my natural "feeling" of what plumb is can be quite off. I have Accuracy 1st levels on most of my rifles ( I'm pretty sure I have 4 of them) and some less expensive (Vortex and MKM) on other rifles. I like the Accuracy 1st ones best as they are the most sensitive and always move/adjust quickly, even in the cold (unlike some bubble levels). The aren't cheap but I think they're worth having.
 
rugbydave said:
I've read that thread on SH and normally Frank is pretty bang on but I disagree with his whole thing about scope mounted levels being a waste of money. I shoot in the mountains more often than not and when you don't have a defined horizon line I find my natural "feeling" of what plumb is can be quite off. I have Accuracy 1st levels on most of my rifles ( I'm pretty sure I have 4 of them) and some less expensive (Vortex and MKM) on other rifles. I like the Accuracy 1st ones best as they are the most sensitive and always move/adjust quickly, even in the cold (unlike some bubble levels). The aren't cheap but I think they're worth having.
Click to expand...


I have 3 higher end scopes I am seriously thinking of switching over to accuracy 1st, that would mean a 330$+ investment.
I initially had thought that Vortex lo pro we’re of somewhat quality, but after seeing 2 that leaked and 2 others that are starting to get sluggish in bubble speed, I really think they are shoving us a 5$ chicom product with an 80$ packaging to us.

Out of all the spots I shoot, only one has a really uneven terrain, and that is the one that needs the most readjustment before taking my shot once I check the level. It is also a closer range spot so cant may not affect shots as much (480M).


6MT said:
I have a bunch (5) of the US Optics rail mounted foldable bubble levels. They've always worked great from +30 to -30 degrees.

But these days, they are hard to find.
Click to expand...

Yep, B.O. everywhere.
 
As a FYI, I received a new NF scope this week and decided to install it on my backup bolter 308 as it did not fit my Stag 10 too good (was original intent).

When removing the bushnell from my backup bolter, I looked at it's Vortex Lo pro level, and the vial had emptied itself since last use (2 months ago).
Another vortex level to crap out on me!
Never again, once I send them in for new replacements, I'll put the BNIB vortex levels for sale, don't want to touch them ever again!
 
MartyK2500 said:
I have 3 higher end scopes I am seriously thinking of switching over to accuracy 1st, that would mean a 330$+ investment.
I initially had thought that Vortex lo pro we’re of somewhat quality, but after seeing 2 that leaked and 2 others that are starting to get sluggish in bubble speed, I really think they are shoving us a 5$ chicom product with an 80$ packaging to us.

Out of all the spots I shoot, only one has a really uneven terrain, and that is the one that needs the most readjustment before taking my shot once I check the level. It is also a closer range spot so cant may not affect shots as much (480M).




Yep, B.O. everywhere.
Click to expand...

Even the Accuracy firsts ones aren't that accurate.

If you have to get really accurate it, then the LRA send it electronic levels are the way to go. Nice visual indicators as well, so you are much more likely to use it after the first shot. Very $$$ though.

Personally, I would try shooting without a level to even determine if you need one in the first place. Then you can spend that $300+ on ammo or training.
 
kthomas said:
Even the Accuracy firsts ones aren't that accurate.

If you have to get really accurate it, then the LRA send it electronic levels are the way to go. Nice visual indicators as well, so you are much more likely to use it after the first shot. Very $$$ though.

Personally, I would try shooting without a level to even determine if you need one in the first place. Then you can spend that $300+ on ammo or training.
Click to expand...

I wish I had a time machine to go back to June 2019 right now.
Was at the 900M line and we saw a zero wind condition, 2 other CGNers we're there too.
It was allegedly very rarely seen at Connaught.
We just dialed 0.1 mils for spin drift and it was pretty bang on.

This was the perfect opportunity to look for shooter or cant error.
On my end, with a razor gen 2 and vortex lo pro bubble level, I can attest that I had zero cant.

I'd love to retry these conditions with no bubble level on.

Btw I just purchased 2x accuracy 1st levels this morning, to match my 2x NF.
We'll see if they survive and if they feel like they are worth it.
 
MartyK2500 said:
I wish I had a time machine to go back to June 2019 right now.
Was at the 900M line and we saw a zero wind condition, 2 other CGNers we're there too.
It was allegedly very rarely seen at Connaught.
We just dialed 0.1 mils for spin drift and it was pretty bang on.

This was the perfect opportunity to look for shooter or cant error.
On my end, with a razor gen 2 and vortex lo pro bubble level, I can attest that I had zero cant.

I'd love to retry these conditions with no bubble level on.

Btw I just purchased 2x accuracy 1st levels this morning, to match my 2x NF.
We'll see if they survive and if they feel like they are worth it.
Click to expand...

I'd be astounded if they didn't survive. I have 4 of them and they've cumulatively seen over 30k rounds (.223, 6 creed, 6.5 creed, .308)
 
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