Video unboxing of the BCL MDI COYOTE.

ColinD said:
A 1:7 prefers heavy projectiles, which are much more expensive to shoot. This is a budget gun, not sure why they wouldn’t choose a 1:8 which is better for lighter projectiles, like bulk 55gr, and is also a great twist for heavy stuff too. 1:7 is a one trick pony.
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Is a 1:7 twist known for destroying 55 grain projectiles? Is it deforming the core or exploding the jackets?

Serious question, as I don't know. I haven't heard of that problem before, but can't say I've ever shot 55 grain projectiles through a 1:7 twist.

I'll always take a faster twist over a slower twist, as long as it's not destroying bullets. More versatility with a heavier twist, and there is some ballistic advantages to spinning a projectile faster (more applicable in the precision rifle world then the ar15 world admittedly).
 
What's that I hear, wailing and gnashing of teeth?

1 in 7 twist isn't really much different than a 1 in 8 in regards to lighter projectiles, but huge if you felt like shooting heavier than 80gr.

No take down pins, are you kidding, man, the world's about to stop turning. The solution is simple though, buy a MS, I doubt they will have much trouble selling all they produce if it's half as good as it looks.
 
redshooter said:
What's that I hear, wailing and gnashing of teeth?

1 in 7 twist isn't really much different than a 1 in 8 in regards to lighter projectiles, but huge if you felt like shooting heavier than 80gr.

No take down pins, are you kidding, man the worlds about to stop turning. The solution is simple though, buy a MS, I doubt they will have much trouble selling all they produce if it's half as good as it looks.
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LOL. What's the heaviest projectile you can still load to mag length? I'm fine with a 1:7 twist. I'm sure my 55 grain blasting ammo will make it on target
 
laker415 said:
LOL. What's the heaviest projectile you can still load to mag length? I'm fine with a 1:7 twist. I'm sure my 55 grain blasting ammo will make it on target
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And that's the thing. People that are using bulk 55gr blasting ammo don't care about 2MOA, it's fine for their purposes. And when they want to hunt with the rifle they can still use heavier bullets that are more accurate. 1-7 is win win :)
 
jiffx2781 said:
I suspect the accuracy potential (or lack thereof) has more to do with the quality of the barrel than the twist rate. I doubt the barrels on these are going to be spectacular. When mine arrives it's getting an IBI barrel because A: they are proven to shoot well, and B: keeping it Canadian matters to me.
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I was planning on doing the same. Going with a rifle length gas system too.
 
Not crazy about it being 6061, but for the price, its probably no worse than the WKs....

Plus, the more unregistered NRs out there the better
 
Holy, here come the CGN lawyers to completely blast on people with differing opinions. Only trying to answer some questions a friends has who’s looking to buy one that doesn’t like a 1:7 because he would like better performance from a 55gr, damn.

Maybe someone can confirm if a barrel swap is easily doable with regular AR tools at a later time.

And yeah, the take down bolt is a trash design that seems like it could be addressed rather easily. I didn’t mind it so much at first but 1 of my 2 SLR uppers had the helix coil spin inside of the receiver after several thousand rounds, got a new one and sold the whole unit because my wait for my MS was over. The rifle was still and absolute unit, it’s just an obvious flaw, doesn’t mean the rifle is trash and no one should buy one. There is no need to be offended on other people behalf. Do you have investments in BCL or MDI?
 
ColinD said:
Holy, here come the CGN lawyers to completely blast on people with differing opinions. Only trying to answer some questions a friends has who’s looking to buy one that doesn’t like a 1:7 because he would like better performance from a 55gr, damn.

Maybe someone can confirm if a barrel swap is easily doable with regular AR tools at a later time.

And yeah, the take down bolt is a trash design that seems like it could be addressed rather easily. I didn’t mind it so much at first but 1 of my 2 SLR uppers had the helix coil spin inside of the receiver after several thousand rounds, got a new one and sold the whole unit because my wait for my MS was over. The rifle was still and absolute unit, it’s just an obvious flaw, doesn’t mean the rifle is trash and no one should buy one. There is no need to be offended on other people behalf. Do you have investments in BCL or MDI?
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Serious question, why won't 1:7 shoot the 55 grain projectiles well?

Is the twist too fast that it deforms the lead core, and/or exploding the jackets?

If not, then there isn't shouldn't be any accuracy concerns with a 1:7, you can't "overspin" a bullet to the point it's inaccurate, unless you are physically damaging the projectile (which does happen).

Just trying to understand why you are so opposed to 1:7 twist.
 
jiffx2781 said:
I suspect the accuracy potential (or lack thereof) has more to do with the quality of the barrel than the twist rate. I doubt the barrels on these are going to be spectacular. When mine arrives it's getting an IBI barrel because A: they are proven to shoot well, and B: keeping it Canadian matters to me.
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Who makes the current barrel?

While I agree that the quality of the barrel blank is a big factor in accuracy potential, so is the type and quality of chambering.

Personally, I'm not sure if you will see an accuracy boost in this system going to an IBI barrel, unless the OEM barrel this rifle uses is complete garbage.
 
ColinD said:
Me too, they claim 1.5-2moa but that’s untested. Hopefully it shoots tighter, especially for a coyote gun I’d want a consistent 1moa
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I see this come up rather frequently. What do people mean by "consistent 1MOA"?

Properly done studies on i.e. Hart and other high-end barrels in precision rifles seem to indicate that while people think their precision rifle shoots .25MOA, in reality a series of 9-shot groupings in a capable rifle yields about 1MOA, and that's honestly about the best that can be expected from any rifle. That doesn't mean you won't shoot groupings smaller than that, but the odd "off shot" you get isn't always you, it's just the limitations of all components working together.

So when a company claims 1.5-2MOA, do they mean a single 3 shot group? An aggregate of 5-shot groups?
 
kthomas said:
Serious question, why won't 1:7 shoot the 55 grain projectiles well?

Is the twist too fast that it deforms the lead core, and/or exploding the jackets?

If not, then there isn't shouldn't be any accuracy concerns with a 1:7, you can't "overspin" a bullet to the point it's inaccurate, unless you are physically damaging the projectile (which does happen).

Just trying to understand why you are so opposed to 1:7 twist.
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Not opposed to a 1:7 in general, I have a 14.5” one.

There are a lot of factors and variations involved including bullet weight choice and barrel length. There are lots of tests and studies you can find on the net regarding the matter.
 
Rohann said:
I see this come up rather frequently. What do people mean by "consistent 1MOA"?

Properly done studies on i.e. Hart and other high-end barrels in precision rifles seem to indicate that while people think their precision rifle shoots .25MOA, in reality a series of 9-shot groupings in a capable rifle yields about 1MOA, and that's honestly about the best that can be expected from any rifle. That doesn't mean you won't shoot groupings smaller than that, but the odd "off shot" you get isn't always you, it's just the limitations of all components working together.

So when a company claims 1.5-2MOA, do they mean a single 3 shot group? An aggregate of 5-shot groups?
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If I burn one, then go for a five shot group, with all 5 being confident (little personal error) and the group is 1moa or better then I would consider that consistent. Obviously not using bulk ammo, I’m speaking of hand loads or match grade. If bulk ammo get a 1-2moa, that’s pretty darn good imo.
 
Looks like they retained some of that previous business weirdness.

A 20"(ish) barrel with a mid-length gas system?:HR:

That ridiculous in-house designed charging handle with the pantie-liner sized wings? :kickInTheNuts:

Can't wait for all of the problem threads followed by a bucket load of these things getting dumped on the EE for 2/3 their purchase price...


NEA - Keep on keepin' on.:nest:
 
ColinD said:
Not opposed to a 1:7 in general, I have a 14.5” one.

There are a lot of factors and variations involved including bullet weight choice and barrel length. There are lots of tests and studies you can find on the net regarding the matter.
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I'm pretty familiar with internal ballistics. I don't see how a 1:7 is bad with 55 grain projectiles, unless it's deforming the core and/or damaging the jackets.

Was just curious if you were seeing issues with bullet damage with 55 grains shot in 1:7 twist. Just curious if a 1:7 is known to cause damage to 55 grain projectiles, more for my own curiosity then anything.

There's a lot of myths and misinformation about twist rates and how they effect bullets. And I find that there's a large amount of people here on CGN don't understand the relationship.
 
beltfed said:
Looks like they retained some of that previous business weirdness.

A 20"(ish) barrel with a mid-length gas system?:HR:

That ridiculous in-house designed charging handle with the pantie-liner sized wings? :kickInTheNuts:

Can't wait for all of the problem threads followed by a bucket load of these things getting dumped on the EE for 2/3 their purchase price...


NEA - Keep on keepin' on.:nest:
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The Canadian firearm market seems to put up with a lot more BS then the US market.

Not that it will matter to me, but I hope this is not another NEA fiasco for the consumers sake.
 
ColinD said:
If I burn one, then go for a five shot group, with all 5 being confident (little personal error) and the group is 1moa or better then I would consider that consistent. Obviously not using bulk ammo, I’m speaking of hand loads or match grade. If bulk ammo get a 1-2moa, that’s pretty darn good imo.
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Is that what they mean, though? I know this is how most people think about it, but it's not exactly an objective way to measure it. Shooting larger or more groups is how most manufacturers measure.

Again, fine if this is used colloquially, but it's important to figure out what the company means by a measurement if one is to judge it. If they claim 2MOA while accounting for 5 groups of 5 shots each, it will likely shoot better by your standards.
 
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