For Immediate Release! CSAAA- Shotgun ban!!

I did read the entire statement including this part: The bore of a firearm barrel is the largest internal diameter of the barrel tube through which a projectile travels.
 
YoungestPiperCub said:
I don't think this is the intention but making noise is not going to hurt.
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Everyone freaking out.... Making noise is the actual intention here. They're lobbying all firearms owners, not just restricted sport shooters. It's poking holes in this absurd order and briging to light that either; they lied and they are coming after all firearms or they don't know a firearm from a broomstick and they're making things up as they go. I'm guess there's a little intent from both angles here.

Make noise, expose the flaws in the order. Bring to light how this is all arbitrary and attacking innocent people while doing nothing to prevent firearm crime. The message is clear, people who have no idea about firearms are making sweeping decisions about legal ownership of firearms in an attempt to fix the issue of illegal firearms. Were governed by morons and we're all doomed.
 
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powerbaitron said:
Bore diameter is not measured at the front unless it is a muzzle loader. Stop the scare mongering... also a shotgun is not safe to fure without a choke installed...
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You are wrong.

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I don't see it this way. I for one don't want to have charges laid against me when the RCMP interpret the bore diameter in the same way to exercise their new Co troll of the Act. We need to close their effective "loopholes" when issues like this come to light before more of our rights are tread upon. Try to see this from all angles. We need to stick together on things like this, not tear apart the people who are fighting on our behalf.
 
Hit 'em up on Twitter and Instagram, that seems to reach the biggest audience. Use hashtags #cdnpoli and #gunban, retweet articles you agree with. This is about creating noise, same tactic as the antis. Squeaky wheel gets the grease.
 
Lawyer who makes money off firearms cases ...... finds a potential case.

thespen said:
For all the people disputing this, please READ the CSAAA legal evaluation before commenting on how this can't be correct.

https://www.csaaa.org/wp-content/up...-CSAAA-Legal-Opinion-re-12-gauge-shotguns.pdf
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I did read it. I have an LLB too. :d

I would argue that the hand wave here is that he draws the analogy with muzzle breaks - and insists that choke tubes be treated the same way. I'd love to see case law on that. Like a precedent.

Hmmmmm.

OK - so how many of you who have shotguns which can be fitted with choke tubes habitually fire them without?

I note that the owners manuals for thses shotguns give dire warnings not to.

e.g. https://www.mossberg.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/12173-Owners-Manual-Pumps-English.pdf - penultimate paragraph on page 28.

Not having a muzzle break is the normal operating state of the rifle - being shot without a choke tube in place and breaking the threading at the end of your barrel is far from normal.

I think it is a weak parallel indeed.

Additionally he says that the bore is measured at the widest place in the barrel - maybe so.

So - how wide is the bore on a vented barrel? I would argue infinitely wide - my calipers can go all the way out to the whole rest of the universe if I want them to. Well that cant be a sensible interpretation.

Consequently it would seem that in interpreting this OIC you should take the ordinary and normal use of the words, subject to a reasonableness criteria.

Cant blame the guy for pointing out a potential extreme interpretation of the OIC - that's how he makes his living. But I think he's a long way from certain ground.

[to be clear though - neither he nor I are your lawyers - and you should act on neither piece of advice without getting external legal advice if you are worried]
 
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linux99 said:
I did read it. I have an LLB too. :d

I would argue that the hand wave here is that he draws the analogy with muzzle breaks - and insists that choke tubes be treated the same way. I'd love to see case law on that. Like a precedent.

Hmmmmm.

OK - so how many of you who have shotguns which can be fitted with choke tubes habitually fire them without?

Not having a muzzle break is the normal operating state of the rifle - being shot without a choke tube in place and breaking the threading at the end of your barrel is far from normal.

I think it is a weak parallel indeed.

Additionally he says that the bore is measured at the widest place in the barrel - maybe so.

So - how wide is the bore on a vented barrel? I would argue infinitely wide - my calipers can go all the way out to the whole rest of the universe if I want them to. Well that cant be a sensible interpretation.

Consequently it would seem that in interpreting this OIC you should take the ordinary and normal use of the words, subject to a reasonableness criteria.

Cant blame the guy for pointing out a potential extreme interpretation of the OIC - that's how he makes his living. But I think he's a long way from certain ground.

[to be clear though - neither he nor I are your lawyers - and you should act on neither piece of advice without getting external legal advice if you are worried]
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There is no reasonable scenario where the diameter of the bore is measured with a choke installed. Unless maybe if the choke was welded into place. If there was, it would mean any rifle that should be included in "bore of more than 20mm" could be threaded and a device inserted to render their bore less than 20mm would be taken off the list. Basically, measuring the bore diameter of a firearm with a removable device installed would completely cancel the very concept of bore diameter.

Feel free to cut a few inches of your 12G/10G barrels or use your 16G/20G/410.

And yes, this is what happens when someone with almost zero knowledge of a technical subject writes a far-reaching regulation on a sunday afternoon. We have parliaments for a reason, and this is one of them.

On a side note, the debate is a bit rhetorical. At the end of the day, some shotgun gets banned. Anything 9G or larger (I just checked, and it seems 8G shotguns exists, although they are rather expensive), even with choke inserted, is more than 20mm.

Heck, a 10G is 19.69mm, so a 10G that would be even slightly out of spec would be prohibited. Some chokes are also ovoid in shape (egg-shaped), therefore a measurement in one direction will be larger than 20mm while the other might be smaller. Who wants to bet a few years of jailtime that their 10G is less than 0.3mm within spec?
 
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