Appartment Defence Pistol?

My take i think bats are a bad idea for inside house use,grab a knife instead.Both can be grabbed by the criminal unless you are fully prepared to use them of course but in a close in struggle the knife in your hands will be more dangerous than the bat which has become useless.
(I saw on tv news once about a guy stealing a car,home owner came out with bat,criminal surrendered,were walking back to go inside his house to call police and criminal took bat,beat homeowner senseless about the head.)
Police and miltary are trained to shoot to kill,not to wound,a gun is not made to wound or scare when shot,it is ment to kill.Forget any ideas about just wounding or scaring in a life or death situation.At this point aim to kill and accept what ever consequences arise.If you were in fear of your life you are at least alive to fight in court.
So forget the wound or scare idea,if you have time and know you will be in danger,call the cops,load your gun and get ready to protect yourself.This scenario will rarely occur,do not break the law thinking you need to load your gun every night when you go to bed for,"just in case",do not load it every time you hear a noise outside your apartment door etc..At this point you would be starting to look a little paranoid to the general public and even other gun owners.
Best bet for emergency defense,stick a knife under your bed if no kids,no laws broken.Or get a fancy safe as said that opens with your fingers instantly allowing acess to your pistol and loaded magazine.Or get a norinco hp9 shotgun etc..
But unless you have something you know criminals want,which would be a few hand guns and you live in a bad area or drugs or cash,you should make it through life without needing to load a gun in your house.I am not saying you should not have the right to have a loaded gun beside you,i think you should,but currently legally you do not.
 
I personally would't recomend a hand load for self defense fo a couple of reasons..
1. even though you may be the most specific hand loader out there you never know; and so a bought load of your choice would always be that much more reliable
2. in the eyes of the legal folks out there it can be turned against you where they could say that you had made and practiced with a hand load with the idea that it could be used for this situation.ie aforethought of shooting someone.

neither a good situation

Jonsey
 
jonsey said:
I personally would't recomend a hand load for self defense fo a couple of reasons..
1. even though you may be the most specific hand loader out there you never know; and so a bought load of your choice would always be that much more reliable
2. in the eyes of the legal folks out there it can be turned against you where they could say that you had made and practiced with a hand load with the idea that it could be used for this situation.ie aforethought of shooting someone.

neither a good situation

Jonsey
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There has never been a case where the the use of handloads has been used against someone. This is an urban myth. If all else fails, you deny ever loading any shotgun ammo. Insist it was store bought.


Spray,
Check out the box o truth website. They loaded some rock salt. It is all but useless against anything with a heartbeat.

TDC
 
Apartment walls are thin. You miss your target and you put your neighbours at risk. Perhaps a large canister of bear spray will get better results. Just remember to hold your breath first before spraying. I'm sure the bad guys will want to vacate pretty quickly.
 
Victor16,

Have you ever dispensed bear spray in an enclosed area?? I have. It isn't fun nor is it healthy. I'm sure a good dose of bear spray indoors with your children and pets is an acceptable risk as compared to discharging a firearm. YMMV.

TDC
 
At the same time that one considers personal survival, and that of your neighbours, you have to consider all legal ramifications including the perceptions of the police and the judge and/or jury who will question the legitimacy of your self defence argument. Forget the handguns, unless nothing else was available. The black guns smack of "criminality" on your part.

IMHO, an inexpensive over and under 12 gauge, no camo tape or modifications, use trap or skeet loads, and it still looks and is considered a sporting firearm. Think of englishmen with hounds for foxes. Also, no side or side shotguns, as still looks "sinister".

Massad Ayood wrote many articles in the magazines about legally "surviving" after a shootout, for both police and civilians

For these same reasons, one should not have baseball bats or hockey sticks or tire irons inside your car's passenger compartment in the event of defending road rage. At the same time, having to use a steering wheel lock from walmart, and which is recommended by your vehicle insurer and which belongs inside the passenger compartment, could withstand legal scrutiny for the after the fact questions.

I work as a defence lawyer in Saskatoon. An elderly gentleman spoke to me about his situation to get his guns back. He had plead guilty to unsafe storage, having shot one of the three guys who did a home invasion on him in 2006 at his farmhouse. He used a loaded 32 auto. He is licensed for prohibs. With anemic caliber, the intruder survived to testify against him.

The fellow plead quilty and received a discharged from the Saskatoon provincial court judge. He was supposed to get all of his guns back, but the RCMP is ignoring this, and still withholding the guns.

All 3 instruders are out on bail and still awaiting their court dates.

Just some food for thought. I am by no means an expert, and simply suggest we take all precautions for the entire possible scenarios.
 
TDC said:
Victor16,

Have you ever dispensed bear spray in an enclosed area?? I have. It isn't fun nor is it healthy. I'm sure a good dose of bear spray indoors with your children and pets is an acceptable risk as compared to discharging a firearm. YMMV.

TDC
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Any type of chemical irritant used whether indoors or outdoors isn't fun nor healthy. ;) In your situation, was the bear spray effective when you used it?

With family or neighbours just on the other side of thin apartment walls, that'll have to be a judgement call on the home owner re type of armed reponse. My suggestion re the bear spray is just one option to consider.
 
The bear spray did its job. I had a hard time breathing and so did a buddy. We were "testing" the canister seeing as how it had "expired". It was very much still effective and working properly.

TDC
 
Just some added thoughts. Bear spray would certainly be effective.

Just remember that any item used in the home defence scenario, from bear spray, pepper spray, hair spray canister, frying pan, bread knife to firearms, will all be put into exhibit bags, should one survive and be charged after a use of deadly force situation. Pistol grip shotguns are a bad idea, even though they are highly effective. Does one really want a $900 Dlask custom held by the police for more than a year even if one is acquitted at the end?

The seized exhibit, bagged and numbered, will be viewed by many, including the media, over the next year or more, until trial and the accused will be subjected to the most twisted accusations and conclusions about evil intentions never personally thought about.

That is why rock salt, or special handloads (even reduced loads) should never be considered, because the conclusion will be that you were preparing for the worse, with intentions to shoot another human being, and not legitimate game that the store bought round is intended for.

Last thought, home defence is about taking all rational and reasonable precaution in home security, deadbolts, get neighbours to agree to not open the main door without identifying who buzzed, lots of ideas written about out there, so that one reduces the likelihood of a burglar or home invasion. It is not always about ballistics.

By the way, this is a serious but terrific discussion topic.
 
what about Cor-Bon's Pow'RBall line ? I have been reading up on these rounds and they seem too good to be true, the chances the round mushrooms perfect and does its job just seems unreal to me.
 
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TDC said:
There has never been a case where the the use of handloads has been used against someone. This is an urban myth. If all else fails, you deny ever loading any shotgun ammo. Insist it was store bought.


TDC
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As I mentioned above, there have been no cases where the use of custom loads was used against the defendant.

As far as having to wait for your expensive toy to be returned after a prolonged legal battle. Who cares?? What is your life worth? Perhaps you'll have to wait for your firearm. Maybe the bad guy will steal your firearm(s) then you'll never get it back. Worse yet, he might just take your life instead.

Feel free to shy away from an aggressive, pro-active response to an intruder. That choice is yours. The way I see it. By rolling over and concerning ourselves with the "what ifs" that may occur after the situation and possibly taking a less aggressive action; one is only setting themselves up for failure. An unarmed or scared society is ripe for the pickings.

A similar attitude was demonstrated by those on two flights which flew into the world trade centres. A lot of good it did them. Giving up is just as productive as advertising what valuables you have. Criminals prey on the weak. The weak includes both the physically and mentally weak.


Mayer,

The results for pow'r'ball ammo have been less than consistent. That being the case, no style or projectile design is guaranteed to work as advertised. Its where you put it, not what you put there. The other major flaw with super whizzy ammo is their prohibitive cost. Many people buy a box of premium defensive ammo for that "bump in the night" use. What they fail to understand is that you must train and train extensively with that ammo so as to fully understand how it shoots in your firearm. The cost of such ammo and the quantities required to become proficient are far too high for most. Selecting a defensive firearm and ammo is not as simple as selecting seat covers for your car. Without training the tools are near useless.

TDC
 
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Maby I'm missing something here, but what is all this emphasis on pretending that home invasions don't happen to good people? Why shouldn't I be prepared? Because of the way it looks? Maby 20 years ago, but the reality we all face currently is that you have a much greater chance of having to face someone in your home than you did in the past. The jury that will sit is in the same boat, and I am sure many of them know it.

We are told to prepare ourselves in case of earthquake, flood, even turbid water. These things are as unavoidable, and just as likely to occur as some worthless bag of flesh entering your home to take your young daughter away, steal your valuables, and maby tie you up while they rape your wife.
Every day you hear something in the news, and that's just what is reported.
The fact that it IS reported should be enough to make any preparations valid, and excusable. Especially when it does in fact happen. You can't say I told you so when you are dead.
An object, any object can be used as a weapon. It doesn't become one though until you form intent to use it as a weapon. Until then it is simply a shotgun I keep nearby while I sleep.

Maby I am just all messed up with my thinking or something, but this is the way I see it. The fact that you took special effort to consider your neighbors, and where the shot would ultimately end up should count in your favor.

Like Lisa Simpson said, "I am going to start swinging Bart, and if you happen to get in the way, it's not my fault!"
 
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DOOK said:
Maby I'm missing something here, but what is all this emphasis on pretending that home invasions don't happen to good people? Why shouldn't I be prepared? Because of the way it looks? Maby 20 years ago, but the reality we all face currently is that you have a much greater chance of having to face someone in your home than you did in the past. The jury that will sit is in the same boat, and I am sure many of them know it.

We are told to prepare ourselves in case of earthquake, flood, even turbid water. These things are as unavoidable, and just as likely to occur as some worthless bag of flesh entering your home to take your young daughter away, steal your valuables, and maby tie you up while they rape your wife.
Every day you hear something in the news, and that's just what is reported.
The fact that it IS reported should be enough to make any preparations valid, and excusable. Especially when it does in fact happen. You can't say I told you so when you are dead.
An object, any object can be used as a weapon. It doesn't become one though until you form intent to use it as a weapon. Until then it is simply a shotgun I keep nearby while I sleep.

Maby I am just all messed up with my thinking or something, but this is the way I see it. The fact that you took special effort to consider your neighbors, and where the shot would ultimately end up should count in your favor.

Like Lisa Simpson said, "I am going to start swinging Bart, and if you happen to get in the way, it's not my fault!"
Click to expand...

+1. Dook you can be my neighbour anyday.

TDC
 
Home invasions are not just intruders coming in with malicious intent to harm the occupants. Cases I have been involved in as a lawyer, where people have died, start with burglars believing no one is home, gets surprised but would not run away, and become violent to the occupants. Does not hurt to leave your lights and some radio on.

I am not opposed to the use of reasonably and neccessary force to protect personal and other's lives, including having to resort to the use of a firearm as deadly force. I believe most of us own more than 1 firearm. It is stupid, but some guns are more "politically correct" than others, and such forms the foundation for gun control, and unfortunately, in some of the minds of those may judge our actions afterwards.

If deadly force is ever required, each of us know what our preference of tools would be, and would or should be trained well, to use or not use, should neccessity arise.

The problems goes beyond having an intruder take your guns. Guns can always be replaced. When you have to shoot someone, the police will in all likelihood, take every one of your guns away, ammo and powder, suspend through Firearms Canada your right to obtain another, and this can last a year or more until your name / charges are clear. In the interim, you don't have another firearm to defend your family if needed, and burglars/home invaders are repeat offenders, sometimes involving the same property they successfully broke into before.

As for the planes and 9/11, I am not sure if the tragedy could be avoided if we armed all the good citizens on flights. May have helped. The lessons of 9/11 is that the U.S. and other governments entirely ignored the threats of terrorism and left both their front doors and their back doors open, without precautions and system checks all in place, which we as homeowners would not do.
 
torontogunguy said:
Jail time.

I am not a lawyer, but I thought we had precedence in Canada now for "castle law" whereby anyone breaking into your residence forcibly without invitation or just cause is assumed to be a BAD GUY with intent to do bodily harm?
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So if an intruder breaks into my house and i shoot him , ill go to jail ? But for how long ? depends how hurt he is i guess ....
 
I would think it depends on what the intruders intensions and actions were...If some unarmed broso just boke in to steel your plasma TV and you shot him, it would be different than if you shot an armed felon who broke in to steel yourt guns and kill you after...

I'm not a lawer, but I believe just because someone broke in your place it doesn't give you a legal right to shoot the BD, esp if your life isn't in danger.
 
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