Intro Rimfire precision rifle 22lr query

emerson said:
Is that systemic to the rifle, or just that barrel manufacturer?
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It would take a large budget to determine that answer.

For your situation, personally my recommendation for a high value open class rifle that doesn't have anything to fear or have any weakness:

-CZ 457 Synthetic 20" for $500 all in
-Buy an aftermarket barrel 20"
-MDT ACC chassis
-yodave trigger spring
-30MOA base (or more if you can find it, up to 60MOA, though they get rare or custom built after 30 MOA generally)
-Athlon Midas Tac 5-25x56 scope (huge adjustment range, checks all the boxes for this type of shooting, and budget priced)
-2 round mag extension x 1pcs
 
rmsg0040 said:
Last weekend I had the RPR out, a member at the club works for one of the LGS and was shooting his Mark II's. I let him try my RPR, he didn't like it, his comment of: just because you put precision in the name doesn't make it so. When you look at the 50 yard challenge, (5) 5 shots groups at 50 yards/metres, you don't see any ruger precision rimfire on the list.

I am probably going to end up with a 455 or 457 at some point and run a side by side comparison. Whoever wins, the other gets sold. In the mean time, more practice.
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But even with all the RPR's flaws, I would still rather use a RPR with its highly adjustable stock and flush magazines, than a CZ 455 or even a 457 MTR in factory stocks. The CZ factory stocks are simply not ergonomically correct: cheek height way too low, no adjustment capability.
 
adamg said:
It would take a large budget to determine that answer.

For your situation, personally my recommendation for a high value open class rifle that doesn't have anything to fear or have any weakness:

-CZ 457 Synthetic 20" for $500 all in
-Buy an aftermarket barrel 20"
-MDT ACC chassis
-yodave trigger spring
-30MOA base (or more if you can find it, up to 60MOA, though they get rare or custom built after 30 MOA generally)
-Athlon Midas Tac 5-25x56 scope (huge adjustment range, checks all the boxes for this type of shooting, and budget priced)
-2 round mag extension x 1pcs
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Any thoughts about going to the Tikka T1X option? Read that the barrel is a B%^&h o take off but the barrel is also fine enough.
 
emerson said:
I appreciate this conclusion coming from someone with some experience. I’m looking at upgrading to an open class rimfire and having the same challenge. Defending cost order: Voodoo, Anschutz 1710, or Tikka/CZ/RPR with barrel/trigger/chassis upgrade depending on which I start with. My Savage needs trigger, chassis, extractor problem, and barrel and then STILL a savage.
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For LR rimfire PRS games like CRPS, you will need to add a properly prepped 10/22 to your list.

They seem to be on the podium a bunch over the last 2 seasons :)

Jerry
 
Are semis in their own separate class in the organised matches?

In my limited informal experience with positional shooting, I seem to have a big time advantage to be able to shoot multiple shots with my TUF-22 without breaking my position versus my buddy who's using his bolt-gun.
 
A good semi would provide a clear advantage for the 25 to 100 yard Outlaw matches, but I wouldn't expect it to work out so well for the longer range events head to head against bolt guns.

Energy lost to cycling the action would widen the velocity spreads and cause verticals farther out.

It would certainly help you with time though, and allow more focus on making the shot instead of cycling the action.
 
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markt said:
Are semis in their own separate class in the organised matches?

In my limited informal experience with positional shooting, I seem to have a big time advantage to be able to shoot multiple shots with my TUF-22 without breaking my position versus my buddy who's using his bolt-gun.
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At this time, Semis compete beside the bolts. I own both, have competed with both. As long as the semis are allowed by rules or law, we will continue to use them in our LR prs matches.

All the matches I have competed in have gone out to at least 300yds... with some as far as 425yds. You can dig up the scores for BC but I will say, from my experience, semis have ended up on the podium more often then not.

CRPS Western Championships was again won by a 10/22 last weekend.... 2 day match Don't have the match book but you can check to see the yardages competed at... there were several LR stages as is typical with this series.

But we have them set up pretty darn well.....

Jerry
 
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springfield armoury said:
Any thoughts about going to the Tikka T1X option? Read that the barrel is a B%^&h o take off but the barrel is also fine enough.
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That happens to be my current configuration.
T1x 20" 22lr
MDT ACC chassis
30MOA area419 rail
AR15 style muzzle break (don't tell Trudeau)
Athlon Cronus BTR
factory 10 round magazines
No real mods to gun, just set trigger as light as it will go, and I did some filing on extractor and bending of the ejector wire

It's fairly good but has its limitations. No extended magazine option, doesn't feed the greasy SK style ammo reliably. Accuracy is nothing to write home about, I can't claim it shoots tight groups. But it has probably the best factory trigger on the market and price is quite reasonable.

I also saw the 8541 video on t1x barrel swap. I would sell the gun and go a different brand before I went down that path.
 
rmsg0040 said:
Last weekend I had the RPR out, a member at the club works for one of the LGS and was shooting his Mark II's. I let him try my RPR, he didn't like it, his comment of: just because you put precision in the name doesn't make it so. When you look at the 50 yard challenge, (5) 5 shots groups at 50 yards/metres, you don't see any ruger precision rimfire on the list.

I am probably going to end up with a 455 or 457 at some point and run a side by side comparison. Whoever wins, the other gets sold. In the mean time, more practice.
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Ya... Exactly... Precision in the RPR case is a misnomer... A buddy of mine bought one, and returned it to Ruger over the poor accuracy. Ruger returned the rifle unchanged stating that they have no accuracy guarantee.

He then sold the RPR and bought himself a CZ which he loves.

Would I rather have a Voodoo? Yes

Would I shoot any better if I had a Voodoo? No

Will I get a Voodoo anyways? Maybe... Some day.
 
Mystic Precision said:
For LR rimfire PRS games like CRPS, you will need to add a properly prepped 10/22 to your list.

They seem to be on the podium a bunch over the last 2 seasons :)

Jerry
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That was in the back of my head Jerry. Thanks for bringing it up. Maybe the vagaries of rimfire ammo QC are a greater hindrance to precision than getting a semi to shoot as well as a bolt gun. I guess the only way to know is make the targets smaller so shooting faster isnt good enough. Wouldn’t be much fun for us average shooters though. There sure is a lot of time lost working the bolt and reestablishing a solid position.
 
emerson said:
That was in the back of my head Jerry. Thanks for bringing it up. Maybe the vagaries of rimfire ammo QC are a greater hindrance to precision than getting a semi to shoot as well as a bolt gun. I guess the only way to know is make the targets smaller so shooting faster isnt good enough. Wouldn’t be much fun for us average shooters though. There sure is a lot of time lost working the bolt and reestablishing a solid position.
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Tools... solve problems

Change the problem.... change the tool.

The biggest advantage I get from running my semi is time..... not shooting fast.

But I can if it helps... and sometimes, it does.

Jerry
 
Assuming equal accuracy, a semi has a big advantage over a bolt gun when it comes to time. Perhaps semis and bolt guns should be in two different classes to make things fair, especially in open class. In production class however, the time advantage with a semi is likely not enough to overcome their lack of relative accuracy compared to a decent bolt gun.
 
markt said:
Assuming equal accuracy, a semi has a big advantage over a bolt gun when it comes to time. Perhaps semis and bolt guns should be in two different classes to make things fair, especially in open class. In production class however, the time advantage with a semi is likely not enough to overcome their lack of relative accuracy compared to a decent bolt gun.
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I proposed a separation in 2019 but the organiser thought it would average out in the long run... and for many matches in the east, it has.... not so much in BC

And stage formats evolve with some stages 'helping' bolt... some 'helping' semi. Overall, for me, I still see the advantage for the semi and it is reflected in our results. Some pretty big spreads on our scores..... but who knows what next season will bring....

And then maybe the bolt rifle will be the better answer.... ?????

Jerry
 
It's an interesting debate Jerry and I'd like to see some long range comparative results between a good 22LR bolt gun and a good semi.

It's probably fair to assume that most people base semi auto expectations on their base model 1022 results, not having a feel for how good a "good" gun could comparatively be.

So I'd like to see a side by side comparison of a good semi at various distances to base the decision on objective data and not subjective opinion. Not in match conditions or anything like that. Just side by side group results on paper between 100 and 300 yards.

Admittedly most 22LR matches don't have many targets out past about 250, so that would probably be the limit where the difference would be most critical.

If I was to design this experiment, I would start with a side by side 5 shot group at 100 yards with shots from each rifle fired at the same time at side by side targets using the same ammo that works well in both rifles. Then repeat the same test at ever increasing distances.

Then we could study the differences between the targets and evaluate the differences on paper.

I would consider the semi to win if the gap in dispersion is not so great as to cause a miss on a target of typically used size at that distance.
 
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My test is and will always be how any concept performs against its peers in competition. Otherwise, it is just conjecture and you can skew whatever test to get whatever results you prefer.

If I see an advantage, I go with it until it proves otherwise. The scores for many matches are published. The spreads can be calculated as can the hit ratios. For many matches, the spreads are substantial. I have not competed in 2020 but you can look at the 2019 scores from CRPS if curious... unsure if the other groups published on practiscore.

The course of fire is the same, the conditions on average are shared by all participants.... the result is the result. And I have a good idea of how the CRPS matches in BC went in 2018 and 2019... and the Western Championships in 2020.

When the game and/or rules change, my choice in gear may also change.

Feel free to do whatever comparison you want... I hope it answers your questions.

I will let the scores support my position on my gear... there are ALOT of vudoos, custom CZs and Tikkas in the upper 25 shooters ... and an increasing number of 10/22s being fielded. Some will share my set ups... some will not

YMMV

Jerry
 
That's too bad Jerry.

I was looking for objective actual data and not the subjective opinion based response you provided. Exactly what I was hoping to avoid.

Before I or anyone else runs off and spends $400 on a 1022 barrel and $300 for a trigger, I'd like to know what we would reasonably expect from such a rig from someone who already has it.

Without the above, hey your rifle looks cool, but it means nothing if we don't know how well it actually shoots at long range as you suggest it is advantageous over a bolt gun.
 
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