Cadets Canada - Anschutz Rifles and Ammunition

Yeandle31

Yeandle31

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Hello all,

I'm doing some research into CF use of Anschutz rifles.

What models are these Cadets using?

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Also, what ammunition are they currently using?

Thanks,
Kevin
 
Looks like Fortner action rifles and a 54 action Match Biathlon. No idea on the ammo. Probably a Biathlon version of SK, Lapua or RWS.
 
The pictures you've shown include some very old Anschütz 1827B (54 Match repeater) and early Anschütz 1827F Fortner biathlon rifles.

The CAF Small Arms includes various Anschütz rifles retained for competition and/or supporting the Cadet programme. However, seldom are the rifles used by the Cadets the property of DND/CAF but rather usually owned by the respective Cadet org as Non-Public Property (ie funded privately by its members).
 
When I was in the Army cadets sometimes came with us to the range. I remember them loving C2s. Now they don't use .22s usually. I think Kim Campbell ordered it so.
 
Winz said:
The pictures you've shown include some very old Anschütz 1827B (54 Match repeater) and early Anschütz 1827F Fortner biathlon rifles.

The CAF Small Arms includes various Anschütz rifles retained for competition and/or supporting the Cadet programme. However, seldom are the rifles used by the Cadets the property of DND/CAF but rather usually owned by the respective Cadet org as Non-Public Property (ie funded privately by its members).
Click to expand...

It's been a couple decades, but my old Air Cadet squadron's Anschutz dated back to when it was first stood up in the early 70's and the funds were contributed in part by fundraising by the Lions club, unlike the air rifles or No. 7s.
 
Winz said:
The CAF Small Arms includes various Anschütz rifles retained for competition and/or supporting the Cadet programme. However, seldom are the rifles used by the Cadets the property of DND/CAF but rather usually owned by the respective Cadet org as Non-Public Property (ie funded privately by its members).
Click to expand...

Can't speak for other provinces, but in Qc. I'm pretty sure all biathlon teams are using DND issued rifle.
- Maybe there are exceptions for "elite" athletes, but for the regular cadets. There's a big no-no to using civilian owned rifle/ammunition while on a cadet sanctioned activity.
 
sillymike said:
Can't speak for other provinces, but in Qc. I'm pretty sure all biathlon teams are using DND issued rifle.
- Maybe there are exceptions for "elite" athletes, but for the regular cadets. There's a big no-no to using civilian owned rifle/ammunition while on a cadet sanctioned activity.
Click to expand...

In Quebec (and other provinces), there are CAF (ie serving members) biathlon teams with DND owned Anschütz rifles. DND also procures the (commercial) ammo for it. These are Crown assets (public property).

Cadets Canada is not an organic DND institution. The COATS/CIC officers are considered Res F CAF members and there are also Reg F members in positions, both to support the Cadets programme. The majority of equipment is owned by the institution as Non-Public Property(NPP), which includes biathlon rifles, target rifles, air rifles, etc. They are still tracked and monitored as NPP, but it means they weren't procured with taxpayer money (ie instead using Non-Public Funds) and not tracked in the normal supply system (DRMIS) like other small arms, etc. (Even the majority of Cadet uniforms are NPF.)

This is not to be confused with a private citizen (whether Cadet or CAF mbr) bringing a personally-owned firearm to an event.
 
The latest CCOMCS Rulebook I've got says
- Only DND issued and approved rifles will be used in the CCOMCS.

A local unit was looking at buying it's own 853. And was told it would be a no-go.
- Shooting gears, such jackets/hats/glove/slings/mats/skis were OK to buy. But the cadets had to used "issued" air rifles
- They were allowed to buy their own Anschutz laser rifles
 
sillymike said:
Winz said:
In Quebec (and other provinces), there are CAF (ie serving members) biathlon teams with DND owned Anschütz rifles. DND also procures the (commercial) ammo for it. These are Crown assets (public property).

Cadets Canada is not an organic DND institution. The COATS/CIC officers are considered Res F CAF members and there are also Reg F members in positions, both to support the Cadets programme. The majority of equipment is owned by the institution as Non-Public Property(NPP), which includes biathlon rifles, target rifles, air rifles, etc. They are still tracked and monitored as NPP, but it means they weren't procured with taxpayer money (ie instead using Non-Public Funds) and not tracked in the normal supply system (DRMIS) like other small arms, etc. (Even the majority of Cadet uniforms are NPF.)

This is not to be confused with a private citizen (whether Cadet or CAF mbr) bringing a personally-owned firearm to an event.
Click to expand...
The latest CCOMCS Rulebook I've got says
- Only DND issued and approved rifles will be used in the CCOMCS.

A local unit was looking at buying it's own 853. And was told it would be a no-go.
- Shooting gears, such jackets/hats/glove/slings/mats/skis were OK to buy. But the cadets had to used "issued" air rifles
- They were allowed to buy their own Anschutz laser rifles
Click to expand...

Re-read my comment. DND-issued is a misnomer but seamless to the end-user but makes a difference in terms of funding models and how items are accountable in terms of public property/crown assets, non-public funds/property, etc. Cadets Canada is notoriously lacking in terms of understanding application of various policies, eg how they 'charge' cadets for service offences and etc.
 
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Deckard said:
When I was in the Army cadets sometimes came with us to the range. I remember them loving C2s. Now they don't use .22s usually. I think Kim Campbell ordered it so.
Click to expand...

I think it's mostly a problem of finding a place to shoot and lead exposure liability. We were still shooting both Cno7s and Anschutz .22s back around 1996-2001 in GVRD, using either the range at Queen's Park or Richmond Rod & Gun which were both fairly old indoor ranges.

My vague recollection is that at some point, (regional?)policy was changed so that the .22s could only be shot outdoors. I remember seeing pictures of one of the GVRD sea cadet corps shooting Cno7s at the Port Coquitlam outdoor range about a decade ago, but range availability is going to be an issue.
 
Navy cadets still do sword, and still work with the cannons too, last I checked.

I shot LE7 back in the 80s, but we had no marksmanship competitions to speak of, and no biathlon - both are great programs, overall.

The biggest challenge is rifle condition. I've seen cadets arrive at a provincial competition, and be given their rifle for the weekend, pretty much unservicable. How (un) fun is it to earn a spot in a provincial competition, hoping to make nationals, but you're actually toast before you even fire the first shot (us/wandering sights, sticking actions...)... washed out by luck of a draw, rather than skill.

Many biathlon cadets also compete on civvie side, snd have their own rifle. Things would be much better if cadets could bring a rifle that met min and max requirements, to keep everything fair.
 
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At the unit level, I remember no. 7 and Anschutz 1403.

On summer camp or while at the armory range, we got to use the C1 with the 22lr sub-caliber kit.
- I remembet a few instances of the C2 and GPMG coming out... but I don't think it was officially on the program :p
 
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