Humbled

Ganderite

Ganderite

CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Rating - 99.7%
355   1   0
Location
Farm south of North Bay
I started loading ammo in 1964 when I worked as a R & D technician in the CIL Ammunition Division 5esarch lab.

Over the 56 years I have always had access to a chronograph and a pressure gun. I have binders full of loading results in many calibers.

So I think I know a thing or two about ammo and can make some reasonable assumptions about results.

I recently purchased 500 once-fired 45Colt cases on EE. This was because I won a few hundred bullets in an auction.

My best accuracy load for 45ACP is a 200 gr SWC over 4.6 gr of Ramshot Competition, a fast shotgun powder. So, when loading a 200 gr SWC in the 45 Colt, I decided this load would be a good place to start.

I knew the 45 Colt case is much larger than the 45ACP, so I guessed that 4.9gr would give about the same 900fps velocity. I also loaded 10 rounds with 5.3 gr, so I could compare accuracy.

These two loadings sounded like squibs. They barely punched through the paper target. Clearly the empty space in the case had a lot more effect on pressure than I expected.

OK. Not a big deal. This is why I only loaded 20 of each. No harm dome, and I learned something. I did not chronograph this load. That was a mistake. If I had know it was only around 250 fps, I would have realized how far off I was.

Being the experienced, smart and confident guy I am, I proceeded to load 200 rounds with 5.6 gr, think that 0.3 gr more would be about right. I found some more 200 gr SWC .452" in the locker, so loaded about 100 of them with 6.0 gr.

Today I chronied these 5.6 and 6.0 loads. 375 fps and 650fps!!!

So, I have learned that empty space in the case has a huge impact on pressures. This is why seating depth in a pistol round can be a factor. I knew that, but did not appreciate the magnitude of the increase/decrease.

A friend of mine wants to try shooting a handgun. Good thing I happen to have 300 rounds of beginner-friendly ammo on hand.
 
There are times that me being a relative newbie (only about 20 years of press-handle pulling) who still looks things up in a reloading manual can be an advantage.

Granted, I did find that despite the thousandth-inch difference, 230gr .451 FMJ works in a .45 Colt revolver, and 200gr .452 cast RNFP works happily in a 1911. Not sure if I'm officially evil doing that.
 
Loaded 45 Colt for a while. My best advice for such a large case is use Trailboss. It works excellent with this round.

Cheers
Moe
 
Last edited:
Moe said:
Loaded 45 Colt for a while. My best advice for such a large case is use Tightgroup. It works excellent with this round.

Cheers
Moe
Click to expand...

Yes. Both Titegroup and Competition are fast shotgun powders and well suited to a lead bullet in the 45.

I have used 7.5 gr of TG and it worked well. I had a brain fart and thought (somehow) that 5 gr of a similar speed powder would be ok.

Lucky it did not stick a bullet in the barrel.
 
Opps my bad. I meant Trailboss not Tightgroup. I need to think before I type. Also had good luck with Unique but ultimately Trailboss became my go too.

Cheers
Moe
 
I started off with Unique in .45 Colt and that's served me well. FFG is a wonderful classic. And a minimum dose of Trail Boss works for light recoil.

Somehow I got to thinking of Titegroup as semiauto powder and only ever worked it up in .45 ACP and 9mm.
 
Ganderite said:
Yes. I may change to Power Pistol to get 10 or 11 gr in there.
Click to expand...

With your light, lead bullet I think that's a good start. Red dot/Promo or Bullseye would work well too if you want something around 900fps. They are very easy to light and will offer some consistency with small charges.
 
My 45ACP accuracy load is a 200 gr lead SWC over 4.6 gr of Ramshot Competition, giving 915 fps with a single digit ES. A fast, fluffy shotgun powder.

I happen to have 16 pounds of it and use it for accurate loads with lead pistol bullets. It is cheap and accurate.

When I decided to load the 45Colt, I used this powder, and added a bit because of the larger case.

My initial load was about 600 fps slower than expected.

I decided to test a series of hotter laods, to find out how much powder was required to duplicate the 45ACP load. My 45ACP bullet is a 200 lead bullet made by DRG. DRG also makes a 200 gr bullet for the 45Colt (sized .452).

I loaded 6.0 to 8.5 gr under the 200 gr bullet. So - same caliber, same weight bullet - just a bigger case.

Charge velocity Extreme Spread

6.0 650 180

6.5 713 - 221

7.0 819 - 97

7.5 859 - 52

8.0 961 - 150

8.5 991 - 2

So, the small 45ACP needs 4.6 gr and the big 45Colt needs 8.5 gr to launch the same bullet. John Browning got it right.

Next step it to test this load for accuracy. It has more recoil than I like for an accuracy load, but accuracy trumps everything.
 
Last edited:
.45 Colt is at home with a slightly-compressed load of FFG black powder. FFFG should work too, according to some sources. The advent of smokeless powder gives it about double the space inside that it actually needs, at least until it did the Clark-Kent-into-a-phone-booth thing and begat .454 Casull.

The .45 ACP case got designed after smokeless was a thing and was actually designed for that, so no surprise that the reloader with a can of smokeless in hand gets more sensible results there.

See also the niche .45 Cowboy case, basically a .45 Colt head with a .45 ACP body designed for the SASS crowd to use in their revolvers for light low-recoil loadings.
 
Using black powder when you don't have to just doesn't make sense. It's not hard to develop good smokeless loads, Ganderite just found out that it isn't as simple as using .45ACP loads with a smidge more powder. I am also a bit surprised at just how much more he needed.

I have very little personal experience loading light .45C. I made some using 8 grains 800x with a Campro 250 bullet. 800fps and an SD of 4fps. Not bad for something I just put together with no development. All my .45C is used for loads only safe in .454 guns.
 
Last edited:
old303 said:
.45 Colt is at home with a slightly-compressed load of FFG black powder. FFFG should work too, according to some sources. The advent of smokeless powder gives it about double the space inside that it actually needs, at least until it did the Clark-Kent-into-a-phone-booth thing and begat .454 Casull.

The .45 ACP case got designed after smokeless was a thing and was actually designed for that, so no surprise that the reloader with a can of smokeless in hand gets more sensible results there.

See also the niche .45 Cowboy case, basically a .45 Colt head with a .45 ACP body designed for the SASS crowd to use in their revolvers for light low-recoil loadings.
Click to expand...

Sounds like a 45Auto Rim.
 
Hummmmm. So Ganderite, I'm thinking the air space also affects the time it takes the bullet to start moving. A full case would almost instant but the larger the space the more lag time as the space must be compressed first. ?? So the bullet jump time and speed couĺd different too at contact to the rifling.
 
B said:
Using black powder when you don't have to just doesn't make sense. It's not hard to develop good smokeless loads, ...
Click to expand...

It doesn't have to make sense when it's so much fun!

The report and recoil are quite different, there's the whole sense of history (Trafalgar, Waterloo, US Civil War) it evokes, and there's nothing quite like a repeater loaded with BP cartridges to put up a really thick white smoke bank in front of your position. Everyone should try it at least once, but note it's addictive.

Granted, there's a lot more cleanup involved and the stuff is hygroscopic (gets soggy if exposed to humidity) and you have to pay attention to safety because it's more sensitive, and there are reasons people flocked to smokeless when it came out, but going retro still has its attractions.

But to get back to the point, the .45 Colt cartridge was designed for black powder fun like that, and that's why it's so excessively roomy inside by modern smokeless standards so you need to worry about building enough pressure on one hand and not double-charging on the other.
 
Last edited:
Ganderite is a wealth of information and a great asset to this forum!

I hate to say though, why don’t you just get Quickload? All of these experiments have already been performed and it saves a ton of guesswork.
 
I start low and work up. No harm done.

This is a hobby that gives me something to do and something to think about. And has done so for the last 50+ years.

My computer expertise is maxed out typing this message. Quick load is a non-starter.

This particular exercise was 'humbling" because of the magnitude of my guestimate of where to start. I thought 5 gr would be about right - and it takes about 8.5 gr. That is a HUGE difference when you are talking about a fast powder in a pistol case.

If I had started with 8 gr and it tuned out the correct load was 5 gr, that would be a different story.

Stay safe, guys.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom